To feel confused at teachers response?

[olimin]

Hi all, first time posting. Thought I'd get a bit more perspective from other parents.

DC started reception today. It's day two And the kids are going in for half days the next week to get settled in.

DC's never attended nursery. He's also late summer born so is a lot younger than most of the kids in his class.

Feedback I've gotten for the past couple days from teachers has been that he's struggling to follow instructions, is persistent in doing his own thing and playing despite being told to join the rest of the class, repeatedly trying to leave the classroom and rarely responding to his name being called.

The teacher even insinuated that he might have special needs (which I know for certain he does not). The only positive she's mentioned is that he seems to be very bright.

I thought that reception was about getting kids to learn to follow rules and get used to school structure and routine.

Did any of your kids go through something like this? Should I be worried? He always responds to his name at home and with persistent instructions does what he's told. To me he seems stubborn and strong willed. Don't know what to do.

You haven't said why he didn't go to nursery. Did you make sure he was around other children a lot in other ways? If not, he's just used to being in charge - not in a horrible way, but I bet you play what he wants to play at home! He may need a bit of time to catch up with other children who have 11 more months of life and nursery experience behind them! I would just explain he isn't used to an educational environment and make sure you to talk with him about how it's important to listen to grown ups.
For what it's worth, my own DS struggled in reception and Year 1 because although he had been well socialised over things like sharing and taking turns by having a sibling and going to nursery, he just wasn't ready for formal learning. They would ask the children to sit for carpet time to learn some numbers and he would be off doing sums with the numbers on the posters around the room. He's 15 now and doing fine. He doesn't have any SEN that affect his ability to succeed educationally, but he still zones out into his own little world and forgets what he's just been told/doesn't hear instructions especially well!

4 year olds tend to be curious, energetic and all about physical development. Formal school environments with large classes are at odds with this.

Yet most children in reception manage and also thrive in these settings. They are not spending all day sat at desk at this age, fostering curiosity and physical development is from what I can gather a huge part of how most reception settings operate. Certainly my children’s anyway.

I found there were lots of mixed messages on expectations for kids entering reception, both academically and behaviourally. I also think it is bonkers how early education starts in the uk, as many (my summer born twins included) were just not ready despite having attended preschool.

one of my girls sounds similar to yours - at the end of nursery a lot of the behaviours you describe were flagged as a concern (not responding to instructions, refusing to participate when not interested, difficulty with emotional regulation). For everyone who has implied it is a parenting problem, we were very firm on boundaries and her twin is perfectly (overly?) compliant. She is just a very stubborn / strong willed girl who did not have the maturity to manage her own responses. A year later she is STILL a stubborn/ strong willed child, but much more capable of managing emotions and navigating the school environment successfully.

most of the solution for us was persistence and patience over time as she developed better self management skills, but we also ended up moving them to a smaller class with a teacher more able and willing to support her and her sister. They still feel ‘behind’ some of their classmates (their classmates are all 4-9 months older) but I see the gap narrowing. Y1 is meant to be another big shift in expectations, so slightly apprehensive for the transition, but at least it feels like we are in a good supportive school.

@olimin

The teacher even insinuated that he might have special needs (which I know for certain he does not).

I'm really intrigued how you know for certain he has no special needs.

I work with 17-18 year olds. In a group of 70 we have one who has just got a dyslexia diagnosis and two waiting for an ADHD one.
How can someone know for certain with a 4 year old?

I think the opinion of anyone who imagines that asking a parent if a child has problems with hearing is going to lead to a special needs diagnosis resulting in another adult in the classroom is barely worth typing out. Sorry if you think that insults you.

I think there has clearly not been a meaningful parent teacher discussion before the child started school, if there had been then the teacher would already have information about the child’s hearing, about any other physical or emotional needs, about any worries the parents had about motor , cognitive or language development. The teacher needs to know these things because they affect the child’s learning, hence the need to ask. If the child had been in a nursery setting, whether a school nursery or a child care setting there would be observations, notes and information available to her, but in this case that information does not exist.

You can't possibly know for certain that he doesn't have any SEN. ASD at that age can often be put down to other things ie his age or not having gone to nursery. That said teachers do always say they can spot the ones that haven't been to nursery a mile off IME.

It might really help him to have a warning whenever there is a going to be a change of activity - huge help for ds when he was young (and was diagnosed with ASD just before secondary). He's only been there two half days so it's very early days but it's really important that he is able to follow direction at school so I would be really working on that at home.

OP you don’t need to be worried, but I think the teacher is only doing her job. She has noticed somethings which are flags for autism (not responding to name being a big one). I have to say I imagine their behaviour has stood out because I can’t imagine they have time to give this level of feedback to each parent.

What’s wrong asking if your child has SEN? Sometimes this information doesn’t get to the class teacher, or you might be on a pathway for diagnosis. In which case she could get the SENCo in and develop some strategies based on your child’s needs. It might not have been a pathway, but it might be a parent saying “well we had concerns” and again the conversation could be had on keeping an eye on this. Early intervention can be incredibly helpful. If children are in eyfs it is often much quicker to get a diagnosis (they fall under neurodevelopmental paediatricians rather then camhs so it is really helpful again if things are picked up early).

I would see how next week goes. If the feedback is still suggesting problems end of next week I would ask for a sit down meeting so you can address strategies more (including if they think need to get HV etc involved).

My DS’ reception teacher also thought he had special needs after just a couple of days - we were totally gobsmacked as we thought no problems at all. Behaviour pretty much exactly as you describe.

After many many years of being called in to school to discuss his “stubborn” behaviour he has finally been diagnosed with ASD, sensory processing disorder and processing delay. It’s actually a relief to have an explanation.

Pre school is so important to prepare DC for primary school.

I'm surprised teacher would suggest SN knowing that the DC has no class experience before starting primary.

Quite a few parents don't pick up hearing issues, these can be first pointed out at nursery or school.

Sounds like something is awry here. This is why nursery is beneficial to children.
OP has caused her DS to be behind his peers.

DS had glue ear, couldn't listen with the background noise but was fine 1:1. He used to wander, ignore instructions and daydream. Poor little boy heard fuck all and it was a lonely time for him until grommets were sorted.

OP you sound like one of those mums. And not very open minded about things. Unfortunately your DS has a lot of catching up to do. So work WITH the teachers and not against them, otherwise your DS will suffer and get even further behind.

Really wish more parents could see the benefits of nursery!!

Going to go against the grain a bit here...

A 4 year old child who repeatedly tries to leave the classroom in a brand new place where they don't know anyone or where they're going who doesn't answer to their name would stand out immediately as potentially having additional needs. The vast majority of children seek reassurance from the teacher as and are hyper vigilant listening out for instructions from the teacher because they are anxious and have been told the teacher is a safe adult.

There's no way I would have mentioned special needs before October half term though.

I’ve worked in EYFS for many years. I understand why you felt shocked by her raising concerns, especially so early into the term. However, she is on it. She is doing exactly what she needs to do to ensure the needs of the children in her care are understood from the get go.

What if you had concerns, but we’re too worried to raise them for fear of judgement? It happens. By raising her concerns she was addressing this possibility. EHCPs and therefore funding are a nightmare to get underway. The earlier the better.

The ‘clever’ comment in conjunction with the apparent inability to follow instruction, pay attention to his name being called would be a red flag for many EYFS professionals. It is not uncommon to get children who appear particularly gifted in certain areas to struggle in others. Sometimes it is the social side which suffers.

My TA used to shuffle uncomfortably when parents would open with “he knows all his numbers!” Or “she’s already reading war and peace!” All too frequently these children would have a diagnosis later on.

Of course there are always children who are able to read etc by the start of reception who do not have SEN however they generally have the verbal processing skills which support compliance, especially with the visual clues of others complying.

I'm very surprised the teacher has raised this do early with you! I think you should remind her your child has only just turned 4 and has never been in that environment before.

Most children starting school these days will have attended nursery where they will have learnt those things. Maybe ask for a meeting with the teacher and discuss what the school and you can do to help him through this initial phase.

Also there are a higher percentage of summer borns who get the SEN label just because they are so young.

Really wish more parents could see the benefits of nursery!!

I don’t think going to nursery is essential. Childminders and nannies also do an amazing job. And I’m sure many parents who choose to keep their children with them until school still take steps to ensure their child is school ready. It’s not hard to be informed on this, you can literally just google ‘school ready checklist UK’ and it comes up with websites like this:

readingeggs.co.uk/articles/2015/07/31/what-should-child-know-before-school/

There are plenty like this, but they all say basically the same.

I think if you choose to not send your child to a nursery setting or use a childminder, and don’t plan to homeschool, then it is your responsibility to be informed on what skills your children need to help them manage when they start school. You’re not doing your child any favours by not doing so. He’s supposed to be focussed on learning about the world, developing social skills, continuing to learn about phonics and number and that will now partly be hindered and interrupted by the fact that he can’t listen and follow simple instructions and the fact that that’s now the main thing he needs to learn. Until he’s got the hang of that the rest becomes secondary.
From your first post OP it doesn’t sound like you bothered really, you just thought school would pick up the slack in teaching your DC to do basic age appropriate things like follow simple instructions and understand rules that are put in place for safety’s sake. It’s a serious oversight.

Does the school have a nursery setting, so the teacher may know a number of the children already so can concentrate on the new ones?

@BeanieTeen very good points! I agree with you!

Going back 40 years(!) I remember the twins who'd not been to playschool bolting out of the classroom ans being chased by staff. I remember because one of them trod on my hand!

His behaviour I'd obviously standing out but I do think needs a half term to see if he picks up the class expectations.

3 of my 4 DC diagnosed with ASD so I'm not of the over diagnosis camp

It may be that the teacher has picked up on some things which may be mild traits of HFA or an attention deficit, maybe a little of both as these conditions can co-exist.

OP, please don't worry even if she turns out to be right. It's hardly a disaster. It's just neurodivergence, which in many cases can give the person an edge in other areas, as the teacher has also pointed out that your child seems very bright. Obliviousness to others or a failure to engage in highly social situations are flags for autism and that's probably all she's picking up on. They will probably just adopt an approach of watchful waiting and see how he settles in. It's kind of frustrating and worrying for you as the parent. Also bear in mind that he has lived over half his life under lockdowns and in deeply abnormal times, he may just find rooms full of people all chattering away a bit overwhelming and baffling.

Can you provide a source for this?

Just a thought. My first teacher told my mum I didn’t answer when she called me or addressed me. My mum asked what she was calling me and the teacher admitted she was shortening my name. My mum told her off as I had always been called by my full name and wouldn’t have know she was talking to me.
He’s 4 and been at school 2 days? Probably a bit anxious and muddled. I wouldn’t worry too much yet

I’d surprised the teacher didn’t know he hasn’t been to nursery, wasn’t there taster sessions before summer at school and or visits from the teacher? Most reception teachers know where the children are coming from before they start, well in my area they do.

I don’t think there is an issue with asking about SEN, it’s common for key workers and teachers to discuss these things. Given he’s never been in an education setting it’s not surprising he’s not listening and doing what he’s supposed to be. The teacher may also be curious as to why he’s not been in nursery and wondering if SEN is the reason, especially if you have not had that one to one chat with her why he hasn’t been to nursery.

Then, there is him only just turning 4, I have an august baby and would never have dreamed of sending her to school without a nursery/preschool experience, the social aspect alone is invaluable, plus they learn structure and to listen to teachers, not just their parents.

Best advice, have an open dialogue with the school and his teacher especially, don’t take things personally, most teachers actually care and want to do what’s best for their students. They also have to take into consideration the impact of one child not following their instructions and it’s effects on the other children in the class.

Teachers see children who present with all sorts of variations of SEN - don’t dismiss them, it’s only doing your child a disservice. If they think it’s worth exploring then do it.