To feel confused at teachers response?

[olimin]

Hi all, first time posting. Thought I'd get a bit more perspective from other parents.

DC started reception today. It's day two And the kids are going in for half days the next week to get settled in.

DC's never attended nursery. He's also late summer born so is a lot younger than most of the kids in his class.

Feedback I've gotten for the past couple days from teachers has been that he's struggling to follow instructions, is persistent in doing his own thing and playing despite being told to join the rest of the class, repeatedly trying to leave the classroom and rarely responding to his name being called.

The teacher even insinuated that he might have special needs (which I know for certain he does not). The only positive she's mentioned is that he seems to be very bright.

I thought that reception was about getting kids to learn to follow rules and get used to school structure and routine.

Did any of your kids go through something like this? Should I be worried? He always responds to his name at home and with persistent instructions does what he's told. To me he seems stubborn and strong willed. Don't know what to do.

Follow flexible school admissions for summer borns on Facebook it’s a brilliant group for support in this area. Many many parents have done it. Some schools/ areas easier than other but definitely possible.

Stop spreading misinformation. They have to prove it’s in the child’s best interest to skip a year. And no school would be able to prove that. Government’s recommendations is that they should continue in their new year group.

Ok, good document …. I knew that my timings were approx as I looked on line but could find no historical data

so voucher schemes in mid 90s could only be used at nurseries in certain local authorities. Remember though that this largely a benefit to deduct income tax off fees for parents. The free element was £1500, which would pay for a full time place for about 10 weeks! Hardly made a dint. You salary sacrificed to get a voucher that was gross tax. But, critically, at that time there weren’t that many nurseries at all , let alone state ones, particularly outside cities that you could use them in. Our small town didn’t get a first private nursery until 1997, and then only provided for children age 3 up. It was 2002 before they opened a baby and toddler provision .

this document says itself that in 1995, only 4% of children attend nursery. And folks here saying it’s now 96%. That is a massive change in less than 30 years ..1 generation really.

my youngest was born in 97, by the time he reached 4 , in theory he could qualify for some hours of “free care”. But, this was part time hours, term time only and again it was dependant on finding a nursery that would take child on under that scheme. By that time most schools had expanded reception years to take children under 5, so they could have this additional funding. My youngest started school when he was 4.5 in reception.

the whole part time offers were of no use to full time working parents. But that wasn’t the point it was set up - it was to get early years education for kids in deprived areas. Typically those big cities where there were nurseries from the early to mid 90s.

as I said in my post, when my eldest started school in 1998/99 he was not in a minority of kids that had never been to nursery even though most had working mums. My mum friends used childminders mostly. And a wealthy few nanny’s By the time my youngest started school in 2001/2002 it was a might smaller minority that hadn’t been to nursery, that included my own son who’d been at nursery since 3. But there were still plenty of kids that had no “classroom “ experience and it was not assumed that kids had.

The big thing that springs out to me from this post, is the issue of how willing and able OP herself is to engage with the school system. She’s chosen not to access nursery for whatever reason. She doesn’t really seem aware of the basic starting expectations, and is hostile to the teacher having a word with her.

School is all about partnership. For children to do their best and have the best experience, communication and being open is so key. The teacher is not the enemy. As has been said, for a teacher to have a word like this after 2 days suggests this DC really stood out in the class. However, OP has taken offence about it. No doubt, there needs to be lots of communication between school and home, but is OP open to that? Is she open to engage and be potentially willing to hear things which might be difficult, or accept things the teacher might say or suggest? Op hasn’t previously engaged with early-years workers through nursery - is that because of a reluctance to have DC outside home or to engage with others, which suggests this could be an on-going barrier to progress, or are there other reasons? We don’t know.

It has been early days, but that teacher won’t have been flagging it so early on, if it was the kind of thing you’d expect to see in the first days and expect to have been a minor thing that would be sorted by next week. And it’s best to be communicating early and looking for strategies to help DC. No doubt teacher would be criticised for NOT communicating if they didn’t speak up.

I just hope OP will engage with school next week - have an open and honest chat about his context and be able to listen and I’d rest and what’s been going on and then work with school to help DC settle in. Hopefully nothing more than this will be needed and there won’t be any SEN, but should it look possible or likely, hopefully OP will be open to look at this and ways DC can be supported. Unfortunately, some people don’t want to engage with school and do see the teacher as the enemy.

I agree with you.
I don't understand why OP didn't tell the teacher he hadn't been to nursery/preschool.
I asked why but got no reply.

I teach a home Ed activity class and have to say they are the most well behaved kids I teach all week despite many having sen.

It's interesting you consider the OP not agreeing with the school as not engaging. This is something I have experienced, my eldest DS is nearly 17, started school with a statement of SEN. I have 4 DC, 3 with a dx, 2 with EHCPs etc. If I didn't agree with something, I was labelled difficult/hostile etc. It seems "working with the school" is going along with whatever they propose, without question.

All I get from the OP is that she is a bit taken aback that the teacher has on the 1st and 2nd day asked if her child has SEN. It's quite reasonable of the OP to respond that he hasn't.

It may well be her child does have SEN, but I don't think the OP's reaction signifies she is any other than a bit broad-sided, which is quite a typical response, even if it is correct.

I agree that OP was caught off guard. You’re right that this came across clearly in the first post.

What was interesting was how OP responded to the things people raised and asked. It was really clear that she didn’t have any real sense of the expected starting point of children beginning school and that she viewed the things the teacher described as being normal behaviour for a 4 year old. And what was very noticeable was the fact multiple people asked why he hadn’t been to nursery and Op never gave any information about that.

IT could be that OP reads all these posts and thinks about it all and then goes into school next week for that helpful and open chat that is needed. Hopefully an open dialogue will begin and ways to support DC will be found, for the immediate start to school if that’s all that’s needed, and beyond then if more needs to be in place.

You can, I deferred my August born a year she started in reception. From talking to the LA and school there has been a lot more flexibility with deferral requests. We are not sure what will happen in high school yet, if she has to go straight into year 8 or not, it’s a conversation we will need to have with the high school.

@Lighthillthunderstorms010 I work in Early years and can usually tell if a child has SEN within the first week. I wouldn’t however, say this to a parent, as you said I’m not qualified to do so. If after a full term there were still clear concerns I would then speak to the parent about a referral.

I'm not surprised the OP hasn't explained why he didn't go to nursery, there's some really harsh comments about it. Maybe it was a pure preference or maybe there were specific reasons, it doesn't really matter now.

I really don't see what you are with the subsequent posts, the OP reads to be as still being bewildered about the teacher's comments so soon into starting school. There isn't enough there to say she isn't engaging, it doesn't say whether the teacher was proposing assessments or strategies, all we have is the gist of the observations the teacher has made.

Does the teacher know he didn't go to nursery? There must be other children who missed out during covid that are in the same position.
It's only been two days, he needs time to adjust.

I completely agree. Parents who haven't seen their child around many other kids (OP says he didn't go to nursery) often assume their child is standard for their age and won't see any ASN. Practitioners who have experience literally hundreds of children often pick up the clues quite quickly.

After day one and day two of school the teacher said to you "we think he might have special needs"? Are you absolutely sure if this?

Their comments are laughable. For someone so clearly trying to portray themselves as a great intellect they're coming across pretty thick on this subject area!

I didn't see any harsh comments about not putting your child in nursery. I saw posts saying nursery is helpful for children going straight into full time school.
I don't know why OP would be worried about saying why she kept her child out of nursery. I imagine it's for the same reasons I didn't send any of mine to nursery; I don't work so I don't need childcare. I also don't like the idea of strangers spending time with my children instead of me.
I don't care if other people put their children in nursery or not. I assume everyone else feels the same towards me and my children. Its just a personal choice. For me it feels wrong leaving my children with other people at that age

OK Maybe harsh was the wrong word, but there was one saying she had caused her child to be behind and sounded like one of "those parents". OP seemed to be to be reeling a bit, and it just took me back to when I got DS1's diagnosis, which I did not take at all well. Despite being the one who had requested assessment etc!
Whatever the reason for not going to nursery, he didn't go, and it doesn't change where they're at now, so I am not sure why it matters.

@Supergirl1958 What a bizarre response. I think you’re showing yourself up if anything... I wasn’t trying 🤷‍♀️
Not all parents are entitled to 30 hours childcare. But all children, before they start school - so from age 3-4 (not always bang on 3, it depends on the month they were born) are entitled to 15 hours early years education which can be taken in a pre-school, with a nursery or childminder.
You sound confused.

Yes, Ive no idea why she is being asked in the first place.. it's irrelevant to the situation now. I get stick about it too, I've no idea why..

I would absolutely feel overwhelmed and anxious if I suspected or was told to suspect any SN

Absolutely agree!😁

I think why DC didn’t go to nursery could be relevant. It is a reasonable question, when it is so typical these days.

It could be that they were previously abroad, or all kinds of reasons. It could be that the parents wanted to keep the child at home but spent lots of time mixing with other kids at various activities so the child was well-socialised and knew how to interact with others, plus parents had a good idea of what standard 4 year old behaviour was like. Or it could reflect the possibility that OP wanted to keep DC at home and out of society and indicate something about the level of interaction DC had with others before school, as well as the attitude of parent towards external influences.

The fact is, most children spend a year or more in nursery and learn about missing with others, co-existing and receiving instructions from teachers - at a level suitable for 3 year olds. Likewise, parents get a sense of how their child is doing compared to other children of that age, as well as learning how to adapt to external educators being involved in their child’s life and also ways in which communication with them might happen. Op has missed out on all of this. DC’s behaviour must have really stood out for a teacher to stick their neck out on day 2. It might be explained purely by the fact he hasn’t been to nursery, but the teacher was seeing something that made her feel a conversation with parents was needed sooner rather than later. It doesn’t sound like teacher said DC has SEN, but simply a Q was asked….not the same thing at all. And understandably, it’s not something parents generally welcome as a Q, but one of the things about being a parent of a school child, is that you do have to communicate with school and accept that you might hear things you don’t welcome. Parents might be spoken to about their child being aggressive to another child, or their behaviour, or how they are progressing with work. It’s the teacher’s job to communicate with parents - and generally they try to do it sensitively, but it doesn’t always get well-received. It is still their job to do it.

Some parents are not open to hearing about their child. I’m not saying OP is in this position, although she was struggling to understand why the teacher had spoken to her, even after lots of people on this thread explained that the behaviours she described weren’t typical for a 4 year okd school starter. On another thread today, a parent is struggling with the idea their child might be suspended for throwing a small hard object at the teacher (15/16 year old) They make numerous excuses for him and say he is a good lad, but suffers from anger and shouldn’t be suspended. Their gut instinct is to only defend their child and resist the school and their policy. Some parents are like this. I’m not saying this is OP on this thread, but a number of others immediately jumped in stating the teacher was ridiculous to speak to the parents on day 2 and assumed the teacher had told OP that child had SEN. However the OP never said that was what was said at all.

My point is, that some parents really struggle with school and influence or authorities outside the home having a role in their child’s life. An earlier poster suggested that disagreeing with school sometimes feels like it results in being labelled as hostile or aggressive or difficult. I don’t think that is the case really. It is right that when schools suggest steps that can be taken, that parents are involved and can voice their views and sometimes disagree - but surely the key thing is to engage with the conversation and to want to work together for solutions.

Well said!

Day 2 and the teacher tells you these things? Very silly. It would take much longer to assess a young child. Stay calm as it will probably take time for a very young child who hasn't attended nursery to settle into a routine.

I am the poster who said that disagreeing with school can result in being labelled difficult/hostile, as that was my experience. I did a Subject Access Request and my son's behaviour records were more a record of staff interpreting my reaction to things. I was ambushed more than once by staff, and it really was harassment on their part. It took a SEND tribunal to get my son moved to a suitable school and the old school did all they could to make it is difficult as possible. I appreciate you may not have experienced this, but it really did happen to me, and it's bizarre to be told otherwise. And other families have experienced worse - malicious reports to SS/Fii accusations.

I disagree that it matters why the OPs child didn't attend nursery, it's not compulsory and she's chosen to send him to school now.

Day 2 and the teacher tells you these things? Very silly. It would take much longer to assess a young child.

Teachers don’t assess children for SEN. As you say it takes much longer to get an assessment - so there’s no point in teachers pussy footing around if they observe behaviour that makes them suspect there may be an additional need. The sooner the SENCO and parent are made aware the sooner the ball can get rolling in terms of the very lengthy assessment process that may be ahead.