Fucking hate this term

[MolliciousIntent]

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

I would never introduce myself as a full time mum and never have, even when I was a stay at home mum, because it's a ridiculous meaningless term.

Fair enough! The mum who upset OP obviously hadn't had the benefit of your input!

Brookstar - I have answered this several times already.

Personally, once all my kids were in school - after nine years of feeling like a full-time mum because I nearly always had one of them in tow, I didn't feel like I was at it 'full time' anymore, no.

@CecilyP

50 years ago was 1972, not the Victorian age. Loads of women had careers, especially if they were single or hadn't started a family yet.

Well, in 1972 a far smaller proportion of women continued to work FT after marriage and children than today. In fact in Ireland women were actually forced to leave jobs when they got married until a certain point, I think it was the mid 1970s. In the UK women could be arbitrarily dismissed or have their jobs given to a man until the Equal Opportunities Act came in (around the same point). Yes there were women who had careers after marriage and children but it was far harder then, much more frowned upon, far less childcare infrastructure and far less common.

I suspect that part of the reason people call themselves "full time mummies" is exactly because its more unusual and worthy of commentary now than it was in 1972.

That's where we differ.
I work but I'm also a mum. I'm not a part time mum, I'm a mum 24/7. My child doesn't need to be physically in my presence to make me a mum.

I'm also a university academic. I don't stop being one a weekends or evenings.

I'm also a wife. I don't stop being a wife when I'm not physically with my husband.

Having said the above, I can still understand why some mums might still call
themselves SAHam or even "full time mum" even with kids in school because you do find that when you have that time in the day, a lot of it is spent doing child-related stuff anyway so you are more organised later on in the day when they are home. Put it this way, you are not focusing on a paid job. Also you are still making yourself the 'available' or default parent if they are ill or on school holidays, which is not quite the same as if you have a full time job and would need to negotiate this.

Brookstar - if you read my comments, you wouldn't be telling me that. I can't go through it again.

It's a stupid phrase, but people seem incapable of distinguishing between parenting and care giving/minding. Inward roll eye and ignore.

Yabu

She would have meant nothing by it. It's a turn of phrase. I was a working mum with one of my kids & a sahm with other but in first instance I was not caring for my child full time. Sahm's do. That's just a fact.

Both choices (and sometimes lack of choice) are valid.

Such is the pressure on women that
Loads of sahm's feel guilty for not contributing financially & worry about career progression & sometimes feel lonely or bored or frustrated and if you add on sen, bloody exhausted and jealous of working mums.

Loads of working mums feel exhausted & guilty & like they are missing out on so much.

Im fairly sure zero percent of dads feel either of the above.

Honestly give your head a wobble.

I have read you comments.
I don't agree with them. You're making it far more complicated than it's needs to be.

I am a parent.... the whole being a parent and doing the tasks related to parenting are so intertwined that making a distinction is unnecessary. When I'm working I'm earning money which allows me to provide for my child. Isn't that doing parenting?

Tying yourself in knots defining part time/full time parenting is just ridiculous. You're either a parent or you're not 🤷🏼‍♀️

Neither did I, hence why I didn't use the term!

@mnmoaner

Except people are saying (including you) that wm aren't full time mums or that there is a criteria because it's about doing

So, no. Its not just about what sahms call themselves.

Or else they wouldn't object to wm saying they are also ftm by going on about active parenting

I am a parent.... the whole being a parent and doing the tasks related to parenting are so intertwined that making a distinction is unnecessary. When I'm working I'm earning money which allows me to provide for my child. Isn't that doing parenting?

Tying yourself in knots defining part time/full time parenting is just ridiculous. You're either a parent or you're not 🤷🏼‍♀️

This is a shit argument. Whether or not you agree on the meaning of a "full time parent" you can't argue that a word cannot have a different meaning when it's used as a verb and a noun.
If I put on a lot of weight and "balloon" I do not actually turn into a balloon.
I don't believe for a second you don't understand what the PP is saying and yet you are accusing them of tieing themselves in knots!

Fwiw "full time parent/ mum / whatever" is a term that is used fairly regularly in society to mean someone that stays at home with their children rather than going out to work. You don't like it. Fine.

When I'm working I'm earning money which allows me to provide for my child. Isn't that doing parenting?

But how can you 'do' parenting while you're 'doing' your job? Can you split yourself in two parts ?

Having money doesn't need to come from a mother's current earnings? She could have saved enough before quitting her job? Her family could help out financially? Or her partner earns enough for her to quit her job and look after their children!

Providing for your child is much more than money - it's time too!!

@brookstar

I work but I'm also a mum. I'm not a part time mum, I'm a mum 24/7. My child doesn't need to be physically in my presence to make me a mum.
I'm also a university academic. I don't stop being one a weekends or evenings.
I'm also a wife. I don't stop being a wife when I'm not physically with my husband.

Exactly. I do tons of things at various times. I'm not doing them all the time (in many cases not nearly as much as I'd like). But I still do them and say I do them without having people contradict me because I'm not doing them 24/7.

Why is it that with "parenting" there's an arbitrary threshold which is established?

thise arguing that men don’t do the same, it’s often because women don’t earn the same salaries as men, so it’s not financially practical.

According to this article from 2015, women in their 20s out-earned men. www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds

So are all women still managing to find and marry men who earn more than them?

This is a shit argument.
Well, that's kind of my point. It is a shit argument although we clearly aren't talking about the same thing! 😂😂

Whether or not you agree on the meaning of a "full time parent" you can't argue that a word cannot have a different meaning when it's used as a verb and a noun.

I'm not arguing that a noun and verb aren't different things. I just don't think it's beneficial to try and define parenting in this way.

If I put on a lot of weight and "balloon" I do not actually turn into a balloon.
I don't believe for a second you don't understand what the PP is saying and yet you are accusing them of tieing themselves in knots!

I didn't say I didn't understand. I said I don't agree!

Fwiw "full time parent/ mum / whatever" is a term that is used fairly regularly in society to mean someone that stays at home with their children rather than going out to work. You don't like it. Fine.

Thanks for your approval 👍🏻
I don't like it.... and that's okay!

@pinklavenders

Providing for your child is much more than money - it's time too!!

Of course it is but why should providing financial support for the child not be classes as parenting? And why is a man allowed to have "providing" as his main contribution to being a parent but a woman isn't?

If you have children, you are a parent. Of course. But that is not what the thread is about.

This is (another) thread about SAHMs - in this case, whether a SAHM calling herself a "full time mum" is a dig at women who work.

I am saying nobody needs to take this as a dig because they are just describing their lifestyle choice which is to be with their kids, as opposed to paying someone else to do that during the hours of what we consider a standard working week. They are just describing how they feel and the reality of what yet are directly focused on - which is gif kids without the distraction of a job on top. If you said you work full time as a nurse, that's just a statement of what you actively do, You are in mo way having a dig at nurses who work part-time!

An interesting graph I think you would agree.

But how can you 'do' parenting while you're 'doing' your job? Can you split yourself in two parts ?

Providing financially for your child is one aspect of parenting. I don't stop being a parent while I'm working, I'm earning money so he has a roof over his head, clothes and food.

Having money doesn't need to come from a mother's current earnings? She could have saved enough before quitting her job? Her family could help out financially? Or her partner earns enough for her to quit her job and look after their children!

And your point is? I'm not saying providing for child financially is the only thing that makes you a parent. It doesn't really matter where the money comes from.
Having a high earning partner and quitting your job doesn't make you a better parent. It just means you've made different choices - which is absolutely fine!

Providing for your child is much more than money - it's time too!!

Of course, but child can't eat or live on time so earning money is important too.

I do indeed agree. So it is not the case that women earn less, so therefore it makes sense that they stay home/go part time/stall their career. Cause and effect the other way around.

And I totally agree that financially providing is an important part of parenting. Of course it is! My husband is no less a parent because he works. But does he spend the hours with the kids I have over the years? No. Nowhere near. And he would never claim he has. But he's still a great parent.

@mnmoaner

Ah c'mon.

You cannot be that socially inept that you dont realise that I just want to be with my kids absolutely can be a dig.

Every single part of society tells women and girls that their entire purpose in life is to be a mother.

To pretend that we'll I'm a full time mum isn't code for parenting superiority is nonsense

Just look at this thread and the protestations of no, wm aren't full time mums!! They don't do enough parenting

No one would be that possessive of the term of it didn't mean they were superior

Its like a thin person proclaiming they are just sooooo fat!

@TartanGirl1

Christ that's depressing