Fucking hate this term

[MolliciousIntent]

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

It's very exhausting pinklavenders.

I don't know about " full time mums" but "full time. Mumsnetters" are definitely a thing.

Oh the irony lol.

Well no you’re still a parent even when you’re not with your child; do you think when yours are at school you’re no longer a mum then?

So much like sex outside of marriage, like I said. We can talk societal expectations but it's not anyone's place to put that on individuals choosing to stay home, that's where I disagree.

The overwhelming majority of mothers will return to work, it's not SAHMs responsibility for any perceived issues, that's all

I am flexible and willing to learn but still see being a SAHM as being unemployed because you are not in employment.

So much like sex outside of marriage, like I said. We can talk societal expectations but it's not anyone's place to put that on individuals choosing to stay home, that's where I disagree

No, not like sec outside of marriage. That's a entirely different topic. I'm
Not sure why you keep bringing that up? Anyway.....

Acknowledging that societal expectations have an impact on your career choices ( which includes whether you choose to become a SAHP) doesn't undermine those choices. It does help explain them though.
What exactly are you disagreeing with?

The overwhelming majority of mothers will return to work, it's not SAHMs responsibility for any perceived issues, that's all

I never said it was 🤷🏼‍♀️

The definition of unemployed is “without a paid job but available to work”

Seeing as SAHPs, retirees, some people with disabilities etc aren’t available to work, it could be argued that they’re technically not unemployed.

People could argue the toss about it forever. Nobody is likely to change anyones opinion

So you're saying every adult woman must be categorised as either employed or unemployed?

No other options allowed?

Would you say the Duchess of Cambridge is unemployed? Are OAP's in receipt of a pension also unemployed? Is someone who is severely disabled and requires care 24/7 also unemployed?

I don't believe I am unemployed as I'm not actively seeking paid employment at the moment. I have been unemployed in the past and signing on and claiming benefits. I make no judgement about anyone else's circumstances. Being unemployed is not shameful, it's a simple statement of fact.

Fact is that I have a very busy life whilst my DC are at school and currently no need to earn a salary.

I agree that 'part-time parent' is an odd title and if I heard the phrase from another parent, I'd assume they meant that they shared custody of their DC with an ex. partner. So that they're not actively parenting DC when they're staying with the other parent.

Omg. There is DOING parenting. And then there is BEING a parent. One is a verb, the other is a noun.

I ask again - if there was a mum whose daughter goes to boarding school for six week terms, she is obviously still the girl's mum, yes. But most women on here, working or not, would agree that she is not doing as much direct parenting in those six weeks as they do (whether they are with their child evenings after work, or all day).

It's the same if you are at work or on a business trip. Of course you still remain as the parent! But you are not doing direct day to day parenting for as many hours as you would if you were at home with the child. Why is this even an issue?

But why did you use the phrase "full time mum" rather than "stay at home mum"?

If you work you are a full time mum, if you stay at home you are a full time mum.
Exactly. So I don't see why it's only OK to say your a full time Mum if you work.

You can if you want. Nobody is stopping you. But I bet you don't. If someone asks you what you do, you would first mention your paid job.

@loveyours I think you are projecting your feelings on unemployed people to others here.

I was unemployed in 2020, I don't think anyone I know would of described me as any of those things.

Speak for yourself! I have never once felt inadequate or needed to make myself feel better. I've never used the term but I certainly don't need to make myself feel better, I'm very happy with my life thank you!

Stay at home mum is just as inaccurate as full time mum. Mothers in paid work prefer it as a term though, because it doesn't imply anything about their own parental commitment, and as a happy bonus, it makes those other mothers sound really boring and tied to the home. Which they are not.

As I've said many times, I've been both. And it's really tedious to see that the sneering in both directions is continuing.

Ok there's no point denying it. I already explained the connotations to 'unemployed'. It's in the media. There's pressure from families, from within your own mind, people often feel useless or bored when unemployed. That is why some people won't like to feel like they are being accused of doing nothing

And well done for using the buzzword projecting. You really get me there👍

Do you think im unemployed or a twatty employed person? Which one?

Why do you think stay at home mum is as inaccurate as full time mum? It literally means someone who stays home to take care of their kids rather than going out to work. It doesn't mean you never leave the house!

Full time mum isn't inaccurate. It just doesn't describe the job of a stay at home mum, because all parents are full time parents. My kids are grown. I'm still a full time mum.

That ‘basic’ definition would include children. So I think most would consider it a very unhelpful definition.

As portrayed in some elements of the media. I find avoid the gutter press helps to avoid unhelpful stereotypes.

The fact of the matter is there are many different type of unemployed people and the so called lazy, unskilled and whatever other terms you used is a very small part of that.

I don't care if you are unemployed or a twatty employed person! But I am intrigued are all employed people twatty?!

@mnmoaner

And I ask again for how many hours does a parent have to do parenting for it to count?

Full time mum isn't inaccurate. It just doesn't describe the job of a stay at home mum, because all parents are full time parents. My kids are grown. I'm still a full time mum.

Well, tell people that when you are introduced to them. But don't blame them for thinking you are a little odd.

I would never introduce myself as a full time mum and never have, even when I was a stay at home mum, because it's a ridiculous meaningless term.

I kind of get this. And I understand that if you're not working and preoccupied day to day with childcare it takes up a lot of your emotional space.

Stepping back from this whole argument: the context is that 50 years ago a woman wouldn't have needed to have a "tagline" to describe herself in a few words at all, a) because we didn't have social media and b) because it was assumed by default that she was probably a wife and mother without a career.

Those women who do have jobs have to brand themselves in order to get work and improve their prospects when they are in work, so you have to call yourself an engineer or a make-up artist or a drummer. If that doesn't apply there is still an expectation that you have a personal "elevator pitch" so I suppose if you devote most of your time to being a parent that's what you put.

I dare say the phrase "Full Time Mummy" is not usually intended as a sleight towards working parents, although I've come across FB posts where I'm pretty sure it is.

But as plenty of others have pointed out, language is important and there's a responsibility, with something so political and emotional as this, to choose your words with some degree of care.

Topgub - It's not about counting hours. If you are a SAHM or a "full time mum" (though I don't use tidy myself as people get very sensitive) it basically just means that you have given up paid work to care for your children. It's a lifestyle choice, in a sense.

So when the children of a SAHM go to school are they no longer a full time mum?

Stepping back from this whole argument: the context is that 50 years ago a woman wouldn't have needed to have a "tagline" to describe herself in a few words at all, a) because we didn't have social media and b) because it was assumed by default that she was probably a wife and mother without a career.

50 years ago was 1972, not the Victorian age. Loads of women had careers, especially if they were single or hadn't started a family yet. If they met people, they told people what they did. If they were home with children, they were generally described as housewives. Mums objected because the only reason they were at home was because of the kids: they were already wives and looking after the house when they were previously working, which is how SAHM and full time mum came about.