Fucking hate this term

[MolliciousIntent]

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

@Topgub

It's not my view, it's a fact.

The fact being the definition of unemployment

I'm not offended at all if you wish to call me unemployed. I know what you mean. It doesn't matter to me.

@brookstar

Yes I agree

With the underlying implications of real women/ mums following their biological instincts

@pinklavenders

The definition of unemployed at its basic means without paid work.

I also couldn't care less if you call others 'unemployed' when they're not. I was merely trying to explain the correct meaning of the word.

It appears to be a dig at them, doesn't it? Why else would they do it?

I think the fact that you (and others) view it as a dig shows that you do view unemployment as something to be looked down on.

This is quite separate to your chat about the meaning of the term unemployed.

I'm out.

Let's not be stupid here. Unemployed is used in conjunction with laziness, stupidity, lack of skills. Some people will be bothered by being called unemployed when they feel they are doing something of value

The definition of unemployed at its basic means without paid work but available for work. That's the bit that means you aren't unemployed if you aren't working because you are looking after your young children. That's why lots of SAHP wouldn't agree they were unemployed.

I think the fact that you (and others) view it as a dig shows that you do view unemployment as something to be looked down on.

Why do YOU think that some posters describe SAHMs as 'unemployed'?

You mean like sex outside of marriage etc? None of anyone else's business if others are SAHPs

Erm no, there are some women who believe that their desire to stay at home and be the primary carer for their child is due to biology. Any suggestion that their choice has been influenced by societal norms and sex based stereotypes is seen as insulting.
Beyond pregnancy and breastfeeding there is nothing to suggest that women should be taking on the lions share of childcare.

FWIW I strongly believe in women having choices and families doing what works best for them. However, ignoring societal influences on these choices is incredibly naïve.

People don’t usually, literally mean you aren’t a parent 100% of the time if you work, just that all the things you do for your child when you aren’t at work are done by someone else during that time period that you are.
Obviously you get the odd twat that thinks being a SAHP is superior but the vast majority of people just mean they don’t work and don’t outsource any childcare on a day-to-day basis.

None of the descriptions that could be used are 100% correct; SAHP don’t generally stay at home all the time, ‘unemployed’ is usually construed as ‘looking for work’.

Nobody has used the term "real women" ffs. Stop twisting and putting words in people's mouths.

I have no idea what a "real woman" is and neither do you. I was telling you how I personally felt and that's all you need to know. I am almost 50 years old. Do you think I'm not aware of "society" and internalised patterns of behaviour? You can dwell in this and self-analyse until the cows come home but ultimately, what difference does it make? If you want to be with your kids, you just know this and nobody in the earth will persuade you differently. If you want to go to work, that is what you will do. I agree it's not that simple and many women have restricted choices, either way. But that's doesn't mean individual women don't understand themselves or be trusted to know their own minds. How patronising is that.

Yeah I get that. But my point is that there is this very hard arbitrary distinction drawn between a "FT mummy" (someone who doesn't work outside the home" and a "PT mummy" (someone who does work outside the home.

In actual fact however FT you are as a mum you are never going to be with or totally focused on your children full time. And as a working mum you may in practice have more time, or certainly more quality time, with your children.

For example I work FT but mostly from home and have only one child who is about to start secondary school. I'm usually at home when she finishes school and although I'm often working next door I'm no less present for her than a mum who doesn't work would be if that mum was largely focused on domestic chores.

Indeed I may be more present than a SAHM of four kids who did all domestic work, simply because I'm doing less domestic work. Or more effective than a SAHM of multiple kids who was so hard up she had no time to do anything with her kids.

So after the age of about four it can be irrelevant whether the parent is employed or not as to the level of care they get. Without wanting to get too precious, labelling one as being less of a "parent" purely on the basis that they are paid to do something other than parent is misleading and a little bit insulting.

Ok women have choices, as long as they're happy. Case closed

This is perfection.

I hate women who shit on other women. It’s uncalled for.

If you work you are a full time mum, if you stay at home you are a full time mum. You don’t switch off being a parent and put the kid in the cupboard.

If you work you are a full time mum, if you stay at home you are a full time mum.
Exactly. So I don't see why it's only ok to say your a full time Mum if you work.

Why do YOU think that some posters describe SAHMs as 'unemployed'?

Because using the word in it’s simplest form, they are unemployed. and I think the looking down on the unemployed comes from both sides to be fair.

Thepeopleversuswork - yes but honestly, I don't think people mean "full time mum" to be slight against anyone who works. They are just describing their lifestyle really and what they feel occupies their headspace and energy "full time" - as in they don't do anything else.

Ok women have choices, as long as they're happy. Case closed

People have choices. These choices are heavily influenced by societal expectations and sex based stereotypes which are different for men and women ( and for different social classes, ethnicities etc). It's important to acknowledge these because not everyone is happy.

They could just as well call these people 'not working'.

As I explained earlier, it is factually incorrect to call them unemployed, unless they are actively seeking work.

@pinklavenders

And then sahms moan that it is work.

The hardest work ever!! Harder than any job!!

And then it goes round again

The same people saying full time mummy is just a saying and WPs need to get over it and not be so sensitive are the same ones taking offence to the term unemployed.

No it's not the same. Unemployed has a specific meaning. Full time mum (why have you written mummy?) is just a colloquialism used by mums of young children to say they not have an outside job.

@Topgub I'm certainly not moaning - I enjoy all the work I do at home, a lot!
Im off now, it was quite exhausting talking to you all! Bye