Fucking hate this term

[MolliciousIntent]

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

@Emanresu9 absolutely. It's just a phrase that tells you she looks after her child/ children full time.

@BuggerationFlavouredCrisps but if you're not working you're unemployed, whether you like the term or not.

@TartanGirl1 I wasn't addressing you.

but if you're not working you're unemployed, whether you like the term or not.

I give up... It's been explained several times on this thread that;

Unemployment officially refers to all the people in an economy who are looking for work but are unable to find it. It does not mean the same thing as not having a job. Governments measure unemployment by counting the people who are looking for work.¹ People who are, for example, retired, in school, looking after children, or sailing around the world wouldn’t count as unemployed.

Yes, let's just call all stay at home parents 'unemployed' to make them feel really good about themselves. Technicalities aside, it's clearly just a dig.

if feminism can't tolerate choice, it's as idead in the water, frankly. It's just forcing women to live up to another set of rigid ideals, rather than the other set of rigid ideals they were bound by before.

Exactly. I don't expect to be told what my role should be by a women, any more than I accept being told what my role should be by a man.

As I said way back, I fully expected to go back to work after having my first. My mother and my role models did the same, and I didn't consider myself a classically maternal type. So societal expectations played no part in my unexpected decision to instead be the daytime carer of my young children.

The reality of having my child, recognising that I wanted my DH and I to be the primary influences in her upbringing (he would have stayed home like a shot had I wanted to go back to work, so that wasn't a factor either) and discovering that I actually loved being with her and caring for her, were the only reasons behind my choice. And it was a totally valid choice. Frankly I couldn't give a fuck about 'letting the sisterhood down'.

And?

You have responded to people that were not addressing you. That's how boards like this works!

pinklavenders is clearly correct but you know what, if it makes certain people happier to call SAHMs "unemployed", then just let them think that. I am unemployed then. Never claimed benefits though or had to prove I was actively looking for work. But whatever.

Yes, let's just call all stay at home parents 'unemployed'

Perhaps it makes working parents feel better, by putting down stay at home parents?

I've given up trying to explain how unemployment is measured... they don't seem to want to understand.

@TartanGirl1 I'm not sure what your problem is but you seem to have picked up on a few of my comments to Peasoff.

Illuminating to see what people really think of the unemployed, isn’t it.

clearly being an unemployed person is something to be looked down on.

That's it exactly. Don't waste your energy, they're not interested in a sensible debate.

But the problem with this argument is that it assumes that SAHPs are with and totally focused on their children all the time, which they are clearly not.

Children go to school at 4/5. Even a SAHM is after that point a PT parent after this point by this definition.

Why should a parent who works full time be described as less of a parent after the age of about five when in fact to most purposes their role is quite similar to a SAHP after that point?

Its illogical.

That's unfortunately the general consensus in our society. I personally don't hold that view but it's obviously meant that way in this context.

As a SAHM with older children I'm happy to say I'm unemployed now, it's correct as I don't have a job but am available for work although I'm not actively job seeking.

It wasn't correct when I had babies and toddlers, I wasn't available for work because I was looking after them.

In RL however saying you are unemployed generally leads to the assumption you are looking for a job.

I'm also a full time parent. I was when I worked too. However in RL when you say your a full time parent it leads to the assumption you don't work.

I was explaining what 'unemployed' means and that people who CHOOSE not to work are not counted as unemployed.

Why are so many posters still labelling SAHMs as 'unemployed'?

It appears to be a dig at them, doesn't it? Why else would they do it?

I wonder why being a "full time mum" prevents travelling to London? Surely bountiful opportunities to #makememories on a trip into town ?

@pinklavenders

Why are so many posters still labelling working parents as absent or not full time?

Jesus Christ the hypocrisy on this thread is strong!

The same people saying full time mummy is just a saying and WPs need to get over it and not be so sensitive are the same ones taking offence to the term unemployed.

Newsflash some people will use either term with no malice and some will use it to insult. And we are on the internet so we don't know which is which, you might think you do but you really don't.

But let's all just use the popular MN argument and just assume everyone of being jealous...

I'm unemployed now, it's correct as I don't have a job but am available for work although I'm not actively job seeking.

You're NOT considered or counted as unemployed in that case!

The denial of any societal influence on our choices is odd.

It is odd but very common on MN.
I think it's because some posters feel it undermines what they feel is 'natural' or 'biology'

That's a different question. Why don't we deal with one question at a time?

I am simply stating that a person who chooses not to work is not considered unemployed. It's simply incorrect.

Thepeopleversuswork - As I explained, if you have multiple children with two or three year age gaps, they don't all start school at once. It can be eight or ten years before they are all in school.

So now, all my kids are in school I wouldn't say I'm "doing full time parenting" no. Because I have time in the day to do other things (albeit it's often connected to the kids anyway).

You mean like sex outside of marriage etc? None of anyone else's business if others are SAHPs

@pinklavenders

OK. That's your view. Others view it differently.

The same as you view the term full time mum differently