Fucking hate this term

[MolliciousIntent]

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

Logical fallacy? It's just an innocuous phrase. Nanny's aren't really goats - logical fallacy...? 😱

In the same light don't call out anything fathers when they look after their kids as daddy day care!

Yes men are laughing those heads off. They are laughing their heads off that women even need to have conversations and threads like this which, if anything, scream one thing which is INSECURITY. Some women are so insecure about the fact they go to work that a throw away comment about "full time mum" triggers them enough to start a thread. Other women, who are SAH, are triggered by being called "unemployed" or a "housewife" or whatever. It's all a nonsense.

Women are only being "shafted" if they are trying to live up to an ideal that doesn't suit them. If you force yourself to work because you have internalised this as 'ideal', )when, if truth be known, your overwhelming instinct is to be with your child), this could make you very unhappy and even ill. Just as, in days gone by, when women were forced to SAH, many were depressed and ill. So if feminism can't tolerate choice, it's dead in the water, frankly. It's just forcing women to live up to another set of rigid ideals, rather than the other set of rigid ideals they were bound by before.

This. This is 100% the only issue here. It's just shorthand. Have a beef with the phrase by all means, but I am sure that your friend did not mean to diminish your parenting by using it. She just used a term that is widely used.

She's hanging out with kids all day so she's lost her ability to think critically about the language she uses

A SAHP, a retired person, a disabled person or an indepedently wealthy person might all not have jobs, but none of them are unemployed, if they are not looking for work.

The term unemployment refers to a situation where a person actively searches for employment but is unable to find work.

I think we get offended and worry way to much about what people think.
I used to say I'm a full time mum but it certainly wasn't a dig at someone who worked. I felt a bit like because I wasn't working people would think I was lazy not going back to work so that's why I said the full time mum option.

The denial of any societal influence on our choices is odd.

Of course there are societal influences.

Your argument, though, is that the decision to be a SAHM is the result of those influences, as if no one would make that choice otherwise.

In fact every choice we make is shaped by all sorts of influences, experience, advice, considerations, irrationalities, nature, preference, expectation.

To draw an unbroken line between one source of influence and a very common choice is truly lazy thinking.

@WalkingOnTheCracks

Well. Of course its the result of societal ideals. Which are influenced by a multitude of things

If it wasn't all societies would be the same.

Every country would have an equal amount of women wanting to be sahms.

Its really not that common either. Most women work.

With DC1 I went back to full time work when he was 8 months old and he went to nursery with DC2 I gave up work and was a stay at home parent full time because I couldn’t afford nursery fees for two. So I’ve done both and there are pros and cons both ways but ultimately you really are damned if you do and damned if you don’t. When I went back to work I got the “well I stayed home with mine” or “but you’re not a full time mum really” comments and when I stayed at home I got the “but you don’t have a really job do you” and “it must be nice not to have to work” comments. You can’t win. You just have to do what you think is right for you. For what it’s worth, I hated being a stay at home mum. I liked it for about 6 months and then I wanted my own identity back. Years later and I am finally about to start working again and super excited about it. The most important thing is that you do what works best for you and your family, the comments will come either way so just ignore them as best you can.

Women are only being "shafted" if they are trying to live up to an ideal that doesn't suit them.
Do you have any idea of the inequality that society is continuing to perpetuate against women.
Your ignorance is quite frankly terrifying!

So a single non working mother who is fully dependent on benefits to provide for her child, who never uses childcare and has no relationship with the Dad isn't a "full-time" Mom by your logic?

I don't like the phrase and I wouldn't use it, and I def don't think I have to be surgically attached to my kids to be a good Mom but the idea that if you don't earn cash directly you're not parenting properly / sufficiently is pretty offensive

Topgub - yes, most women do work these days. They will do so for a whole variety of reasons. There will be women who thrive in their work and who can't imagine life any other way. There will be other women who struggle with it and hate using childcare but who have no choice. Then there will be everyone inbetween which is probably the majority. All societies are different, sure. But there will always be women who, given the option, would rather be with their kids. You can't conveniently ignore that reality because it doesn't fit with your view of an ideal society where all women feel they have go to work exactly the same as their husbands! Its just not realistic.

IMHO, it sounds like she’s a bit jealous and felt the need to make you feel guilty by saying she’s is a full time mum.
You are the one who actually has the best of both worlds, time with DC and work where you can feel valued and have adult conversation.
Your friend is probably bored!

Tell me PeasOff, have you ever met a small child? There's a reason people say they're going back to work for a break.

@mnmoaner

You keep arguing against points I havent raised.

Don’t worry OP. It says much more about her than it does about you.

Allow the stay at homers their opportunity to feel a little bit powerful.

Your baby will be fine OP. Nursery is quite wonderful x

Anyway.... if people say they are a "full time mum" it's probably not meant as a 'flex' (to use my kids' words). It's just how they feel.

When I had DS1, it didn't occur to me to use childcare and my husband was working in a role with long / unpredictable hours, so I just got on with it. Yes, of course he would be hands on in the evenings etc, but that's not the same thing as being 'default' all the time. It was what I did all day every day so it certainly felt 'full time.' When DS1 started playgroup just before he was three, I had DS2 by then. The playgroup was only three hours 9-12 on three mornings a week, so to be honest, it was more hassle getting him there and back with a baby in tow than having him at home. Then a year later, I had DS3 - so it was was getting DS1 to school, driving back to get DS2 in the playgroup; hanging round for him and doing something else with DS3; picking him up l; coming home; doing lunch etc. Then getting them all in the car by 3pm and trying to keep the baby awake in the car because if he slept then, he'd be up until 11pm. Variations of this went on for almost 10 years. I don't think I ever described myself as a 'full time mum', but it certainly felt like it for years and what else was I? I wasn't doing anything else.

@Hobbitfeet32 ...

My child arrived just the other day
He came to the world in the usual way
But there were planes to catch, and bills to pay
He learned to walk while I was away
And he was talking 'fore I knew it, and as he grew
He'd say "I'm gonna be like you, dad"
"You know I'm gonna be like you"
And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon
"When you coming home, dad?" "I don't know when"
"But we'll get together then
You know we'll have a good time then"

Wow, patronising much!

@Hobbitfeet32*
Gov.uk actually states that the responsibilities of a parent are to provide a home for a child and protect and maintain the child. So working parents are being more of a full time parent than a SAHP as they are going both.*

What?

You're stating that working parents are 'more of a full time parent' as they both leave the house to offer their labour to outside companies?!

Why are they 'more of a full time parent' than a parent who chooses to spend most of their time actually looking after, talking to, playing with their children? If parents can afford to do this, then surely that's wonderful for the children.

And come to think of it when my kids were younger, I quite often used to get friends who had returned to work saying to me," I don't know how you do it full time." Quite a few friends freely admitted they couldn't cope with kids all day and needed to go to work for their sanity. I just didn't feel like that personally, but I totally understand why some women would. One friend said she is a happier mum when she was working and I completely respect that. No need to make yourself miserable - what use is that to the child? But I also know I would have been miserable if my husband had insisted on me working. It is what it is. Everyone is different.

And we're back to the subtle digs at working mums all the while claiming offence or I just want to support women's choices

🤣

@mnmoaner if I did all that and worked can I call myself a full time mum plus overtime?

To all the people saying stay at home parents are not working - would you say the same to a Nanny/Childminder/Nursery Assistant? There's no difference.

what?

but…nanny/childminder etc choose to look after someone else’s children in return for a wage. It’s not the same as actually having and looking after your own child?

what do you mean it’s not different? Like what are you actually talking about?