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AIBU?

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Original poster

Fucking hate this term

1000 replies

MolliciousIntent · 31/08/2022 19:03

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Topgub · 01/09/2022 23:43

@mnmoaner

Nope

My ideal is both parents working and sharing childcare equally

Not women being solely responsible for all childcare while men focus on their careers.

If parents want to use childcare then that's up to them

mnmoaner · 01/09/2022 23:50

Oh ok TopGub.
Could be good for some, but counterproductive / restrictive for others.

Its not as if people only have children with those who earn equally to them; have similar flexibility; aspirations etc. Life doesn't work like that.

Topgub · 01/09/2022 23:54

@mnmoaner

Well no.

Because we live in a sexist society where women are encouraged to view being a sahm as the ideal.

A more equal society should be seen as the ideal

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 00:01

There is no 'ideal.' But if an individual woman feels instinctively (as many do and always will), that she wants to be with her children, she will probably gravitate to a man who is compatible with that. There are all types of men for all types of women and vice versa and thank god for that. What a hollow existence it sounds be if we all had to pretend we feel the same.

Equally, if a woman feels strongly about having a career, then absolutely fine. She should go for it and she will no doubt gravitate to a man compatible with that.

No 'ideal' - just human nature in all its variations.

Topgub · 02/09/2022 00:11

Hopefully the sexist men (first option) are getting less but it doesn't feel like it on mumsnet

Its like going back in time

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 00:16

If a woman feels instinctively she wants to be with her child, this actually has nothing to do with men. She feels how she feels and that's the end of it. She will find a partner to complement what she wants.

Topgub · 02/09/2022 00:18

Well it has something to do with men

Which is why society continues to be sexist

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 00:22

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

There are women who feel very strongly that they want to be with their children. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. What is the point in trying to deny that or quash it? What men may or many nor want is irrelevant to how a woman feels about her child.

Crumpleton · 02/09/2022 00:23

Ilikepinacoladass · 01/09/2022 22:55

@mnmoaner
Is looking after pets / doing the gardening / doing the cleaning etc a job too then? As if you didn't do they then someone else would need to be paid to do them?

I like the 'full time domestic duties' term, much better than full time mum or full time parent. All parents are full time mum / parent, no matter if you're providing 100% of the childcare or not

Absolutely..
Domestic engineer..

saraclara · 02/09/2022 00:25

Topgub · 02/09/2022 00:18

Well it has something to do with men

Which is why society continues to be sexist

Are you a communist by any chance?

Fortunately in this country women have choices. I planned to go back to work, but discovered to my surprise, that I wanted to be with my child all day. I loved being a hands on mum and I had opinions about how I wanted her to be brought up. I couldn't in all fairness foist them on a childminder.
No way would I have set aside what I wanted to do with those three or four years 'for the sake of the sisterhood'.

Readaboutyourself · 02/09/2022 00:37

cestlavielife · 31/08/2022 19:15

"When your kids go to school will you be a part time mum too?"

Genius

Swonderful · 02/09/2022 00:51

Sahms bashing working Mums... working Mums bashing sahms.

Come on .... solidarity sisters... it's hard enough being a woman!

Mothership4two · 02/09/2022 04:09

I doubt she meant anything by it OP. Full time mum is a term that gets used a lot and I suspect she meant what she said - haven't been able to go due to childcare. I'm guessing she didn't realise how it came across to you. You said you are tired/stressed so maybe you're overthinking it? Personally I would rather believe someone was being a bit thoughtless than deliberately having a dig. Of course, you are a full time "mum" too.

FaptainClubby · 02/09/2022 04:28

Funny how you’re now trying the ‘feminist/sexist/poor women’ angle @Topgub, on another thread you bashed STAP when the father was the one staying at home, so it’s clearly nothing to do with feminism, you just have an issue with SAHP.

And if you’re really a feminist then you would support a womans choice to stay at home and want the industry to stop penalising that choice, you wouldn’t be blaming mothers who decide to stay at home for being the problem because that’s bullshit. Blaming a woman who chooses to stay at home and making niggly comments to those who do isn’t supporting women OR their issues, it’s kicking them down along with all the men who do the same thing.

And you can attempt you make out that I’m having a go at WM, but as I said unthread I’m a freelance WM and haven’t said a single word about WM so who is putting words into others mouths now? You have an attitude towards SAHP. It comes out on multiple threads. You can give the whole ‘It’s a public forum, I can say what I like, why are you offended bla bla bla’ but then you have to take the fact that others can call you out on your attitude problem because, you know, public forum and all that.

Ilikepinacoladass · 02/09/2022 07:02

@mnmoaner
Yes your own gardening, cleaning, washing, childcare are technically 'jobs that need to be done' otherwise you'd have to pay someone else to do them, but that doesn't make them a job, obviously, unless you're getting paid to do it.

And getting someone else to do all or part of the childcare or cleaning for you while you work or do something else isn't usually because you're not 'cut out for it' it's quite likely because you need the money or you just don't want to do it (100% of the time at least).

G5000 · 02/09/2022 07:14

But is it a totally free choice? Why do more women in some societies feel so strongly that they want to stay at home, while in others, they don't seem to in such large numbers? And why almost no men in the UK have that biological urge to be with their babies, while so many in Scandi countries seem to?
Yes I absolutely believe families should have the choice to decide how they best want to take care of their offspring. But if the entire society is set up assuming mum is not working or working part time around the children's schedules and where childcare is simply not affordable for many families, I don't believe this is a free choice for everybody.

Justine878 · 02/09/2022 07:16

Topgub · 01/09/2022 23:54

@mnmoaner

Well no.

Because we live in a sexist society where women are encouraged to view being a sahm as the ideal.

A more equal society should be seen as the ideal

No. we really don't

We live in a misogynistic society where women are expected to be the perfect mother, homemaker AND equally contribute to finances, and do all this while ensuring we stay attractive to our other half. We were sold a lemon, and it looks like you bought it hook, line and sinker. Sahp's don't have financial protection and it is not an easy role. Some women still do it, despite the negatives because it is IMPORTANT to them to follow their own path, and not the one a misogynistic society set out for them. And the women who started turning on each other and judging others are part of the problem of the misogynistic society.

Don't worry. I don't expect you to agree. I'm sure I have seen you before recently? do you name change often? Your style of writing and naturally combative (and not very well thought out) arguments are quite distinctive.

Hobbitfeet32 · 02/09/2022 07:26

Gov.uk actually states that the responsibilities of a parent are to provide a home for a child and protect and maintain the child. So working parents are being more of a full time parent than a SAHP as they are going both.

The argument that in order to be a full time parent you have to be with the child all the time is ridiculous. There are many different roles as a parent, many of which actually involve not been attached to the child.

LMCOA · 02/09/2022 07:28

Iliveonahill · 01/09/2022 11:29

She was responsible for organising it and managing you as her employee. Husband probably took no interest.

lots of my mum friends say they are like single parents because their husbands work long hrs and do attend parents evenings. No they are not single parents. A single parent is exactly that - one parent who is 100% responsible for the child - no every other weekend stuff etc.

Show quote history

Sorry for the delay.

She didn't organise anything to do with the kids. All she did was pay my wages - and that was done through an agency.

I did everything to do with schools, extra curriculum activities, organised cleaners, weekly household shopping.

To be clear, it wasn't really the 'single mum' comments that bothered me, it was her telling the world that she did everything at home!

FaptainClubby · 02/09/2022 07:38

Hobbitfeet32 · 02/09/2022 07:26

Gov.uk actually states that the responsibilities of a parent are to provide a home for a child and protect and maintain the child. So working parents are being more of a full time parent than a SAHP as they are going both.

The argument that in order to be a full time parent you have to be with the child all the time is ridiculous. There are many different roles as a parent, many of which actually involve not been attached to the child.

No one is more of a ‘full time parent’, what ridiculous bullshit.

There are different ways of being a parent and providing for your children and no two ways are the same. Stop claiming one way of parenting is better than another.

Sisisisi · 02/09/2022 07:40

Justine878 · 02/09/2022 07:16

No. we really don't

We live in a misogynistic society where women are expected to be the perfect mother, homemaker AND equally contribute to finances, and do all this while ensuring we stay attractive to our other half. We were sold a lemon, and it looks like you bought it hook, line and sinker. Sahp's don't have financial protection and it is not an easy role. Some women still do it, despite the negatives because it is IMPORTANT to them to follow their own path, and not the one a misogynistic society set out for them. And the women who started turning on each other and judging others are part of the problem of the misogynistic society.

Don't worry. I don't expect you to agree. I'm sure I have seen you before recently? do you name change often? Your style of writing and naturally combative (and not very well thought out) arguments are quite distinctive.

Show quote history

Surely the point here is not what women are doing but what men arent doing.
I agree its misogynistic that men expect women who do all the domestic duties and WOH but the answer to that isnt for women to give up WOH ( and all the benefits that go with it) and SAH but for both parents to share care/ WOH.
I find it really troubling that so many women dont understand that poor male role models/ absent male influence does have an affect on society.
We need men to care for their own children.

Topgub · 02/09/2022 07:41

@Justine878

If you cant debate the point without getting personal then you're clearly too defensive

The lemon is choice feminism. The lemon, as @g5000 says is neurosexism that teaches women wanting to be a sahm is a free choice. The 'important' choice any real woman would be making.

Topgub · 02/09/2022 07:42

@Sisisisi

exactly

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 07:49

Topgub - but who are you (or anyone) to be telling any other woman they can't trust their own minds or their own instincts?

I would call that the ultimate in misogyny.

I'm sorry if it doesn't fit with your agenda, but the fact is, some women feel strongly that they want to be with their own children. There is nothing you, or 'men' or 'society' can do about this.

TartanGirl1 · 02/09/2022 07:57

mnmoaner · 02/09/2022 07:49

Topgub - but who are you (or anyone) to be telling any other woman they can't trust their own minds or their own instincts?

I would call that the ultimate in misogyny.

I'm sorry if it doesn't fit with your agenda, but the fact is, some women feel strongly that they want to be with their own children. There is nothing you, or 'men' or 'society' can do about this.

Do you not think outside forces influences peoples decision making?

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