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Original poster

Fucking hate this term

1000 replies

MolliciousIntent · 31/08/2022 19:03

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

OP posts:
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7
Confusion101 · 01/09/2022 16:01

larkstar · 01/09/2022 15:54

IMHO anyone that starts a post like this with the F word sounds volatile, immature and intrinsically angry; it's unnecessary and doesn't make a good impression.

I'm sure the anonymous poster on this thread is absolutely devastated they made a "fucking" poor impression on another anonymous poster 😂😂😂

saraclara · 01/09/2022 16:04

Good grief. This thread is going to run forever.

We really haven't come any further on in accepting that a) women make different choices/have them foisted on them, and b) there is no perfect term for the roles that either 'side' takes on.

Can we all stop with the criticism of those fulfilling the 'other' role, and being so thin skinned as to think that the common term for our own or others role is somehow a threat to us? It really isn't.

eastegg · 01/09/2022 16:11

saraclara · 01/09/2022 16:04

Good grief. This thread is going to run forever.

We really haven't come any further on in accepting that a) women make different choices/have them foisted on them, and b) there is no perfect term for the roles that either 'side' takes on.

Can we all stop with the criticism of those fulfilling the 'other' role, and being so thin skinned as to think that the common term for our own or others role is somehow a threat to us? It really isn't.

I totally agree. I wish the thread could end with your post (well, mine now).

CecilyP · 01/09/2022 16:23

You don't stop being a mother when you're not with them though, my children are both adults now, does that mean I'm no longer a mother because they don't need minding anymore?

It's what you are; it's not what you do.

So you refer to men who work outside the home as part time dads then do you?

Does anyone refer to either as part-time mums or part-time dads. If a WOHM mum or dad is asked what they do, they will generally refer to their job. A guess a WOHM mum of young children is probably far more likely to mention the children as well.

grayhairdontcare · 01/09/2022 16:31

@Livinginanotherworld I'm not.
I stayed at home until my children started school.
I then worked school hours till they left school.
I wasn't earning money for four years. I was unemployed go four years.

pinklavenders · 01/09/2022 16:36

Topgub · 01/09/2022 15:43

@pinklavenders

But stay at home mums dont stay at home.

So how is that any better?

I never suggested it was 'better'

pinklavenders · 01/09/2022 16:38

Topgub · 01/09/2022 15:57

@pinklavenders

I've asked but you haven't answered that I can see, nor has anyone else

Do you think working parents don't do any work inside the home?

How many hours do you have to spend being a mum to qualify as a full time mum?

I'm sure all parents keep their home clean and clothes washed and ironed!

I can't and don't want to answer the second question. I don't think it's at all relevant.

Topgub · 01/09/2022 16:42

@pinklavenders

Of course its relevant!

Its what the whole thread is about.

Why do you not want to answer?

Working parents keep their houses clean and do childcare.

Lots of it.

Why is that difficult for you to acknowledge?

pinklavenders · 01/09/2022 16:42

So you refer to men who work outside the home as part time dads then do you?

I don't refer to such men as anything other than men who go to work. Hopefully these men, if they have children, will spend time with them when they're not at work.

Why are you do intent on nitpicking all these definitions?!

Why can't we just support other women's choices??

pinklavenders · 01/09/2022 16:47

@Topgub I'm sorry if my comments and opinions don't satisfy you, and that you feel im not acknowledging or admitting things...

I want all women to be supported in whatever choices they make!

Im going to leave this thread now as I feel you're misunderstanding me.

Thepeopleversuswork · 01/09/2022 16:51

saraclara · 01/09/2022 16:04

Good grief. This thread is going to run forever.

We really haven't come any further on in accepting that a) women make different choices/have them foisted on them, and b) there is no perfect term for the roles that either 'side' takes on.

Can we all stop with the criticism of those fulfilling the 'other' role, and being so thin skinned as to think that the common term for our own or others role is somehow a threat to us? It really isn't.

I’d love that to be true.

But this is a hugely political issue. The fact that this is probably the most recurring controversy on MN threads shows it’s not true.

”Why can’t we just accept each other’s choices” is always the call on here. And of course at an individual level we should and in RL usually do.

But it’s naïve to suggest that language and the way we describe our roles in the family doesn’t matter. It does matter because it’s a judgement and this is why people are thin-skinned and sensitive.

Any woman who hasn’t lived under a rock should realise these “choices” (if they are choices) are hugely complicated, personal and multi-factorial. We can and should debate the optimal role of women in society and work. But we should at a minimum be prepared to avoid weaponising the way we describe these roles.

A number of posters have said it’s on working mums to take responsibility for the way this makes them feel. I would be more prepared to do this if I didn’t read screeds of ill informed comments every day on here along the lines of “poor kids, in wraparound childcare” or “you’ll never get the time back.

Well, sorry but no. I am totally committed not to being judgemental of women who choose to remain at home with their kids. If those women choose to denigrate the way I organise my life, even though they know I have no choice in the matter, I reserve the right to feel resentful of this.

dmask · 01/09/2022 16:56

I thought she meant it as in, oh I’d love to go to London, but I don’t really get the chance anymore’.

Topgub · 01/09/2022 17:01

@pinklavenders

I'm not misunderstanding you.

Youve argued throughout that sahms should be called full time mums as they do full time parenting.

You dont seem to want to acknowledge that working parents also parents full time or to define how many hours you have to do to qualify as a full time mum

But if you need to leave the thread rather than answer fair enough

thenewduchessoflapland · 01/09/2022 17:03

I take my hat off to mums who work full time and take of their homes and kids.I did it when my eldest was tiny and it was exhausting;I went part time after my 2nd was born.I've had intermittent periods as a SAHP;I'm technically a SAHP at the moment although I do a little bit of work and have a very small weekly income.I've worked from home too.

All of it is bloody hard;working FT/PT/WFH/SAHP.

Just ignore her;it was a stupid throwaway comment she should have thought about before opening her mouth.

TartanGirl1 · 01/09/2022 17:04

@Thepeopleversuswork

A number of posters have said it’s on working mums to take responsibility for the way this makes them feel. I would be more prepared to do this if I didn’t read screeds of ill informed comments every day on here along the lines of “poor kids, in wraparound childcare” or “you’ll never get the time back.

And my personal favourite I never had kids to pay someone else to raise them...

Topgub · 01/09/2022 17:12

Can't we just respect others choices is just code for I don't want to have to think to closely about the impacts of mine and don't want to have to acknowledge it probably doesn't really make any difference to parenting outcomes

You may not want to discuss the impacts of parenting choices on gender politics but others do.

So don't comment rather than telling people to just 'be kind' 🤢

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2022 17:12

pinklavenders · 01/09/2022 15:06

*And if you work but have school age children, use no paid childcare - what are you then?

The 24 hours a day argument only works until they’re at school.*

You're a Stay at Home Parent then! You're there when your kids come home from school, you're there in the school holidays.

Goodness you’ve tied yourself in knots.

Now working mothers are also SAHPs if they don't use childcare.

Does this make all working mothers SAHPs when their children are teenagers and no longer need childcare?

Topgub · 01/09/2022 17:13

@TartanGirl1

exactly

This thread is full of women sayng only sahms raise/shape/rear their kids. Full of them saying how important and valuable a job it is

How is that respecting the working mums choice?

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2022 17:13

Oh and school holiday childcare is shared with DH - does this

applebot · 01/09/2022 17:17

saraclara · 01/09/2022 16:04

Good grief. This thread is going to run forever.

We really haven't come any further on in accepting that a) women make different choices/have them foisted on them, and b) there is no perfect term for the roles that either 'side' takes on.

Can we all stop with the criticism of those fulfilling the 'other' role, and being so thin skinned as to think that the common term for our own or others role is somehow a threat to us? It really isn't.

Anyone still arguing, please refer back here 😒

Thepeopleversuswork · 01/09/2022 17:47

@TartanGirl1

And my personal favourite I never had kids to pay someone else to raise them...

Totally. This is the moronic statement ever.

If people have the luxury of not having to worry about how to finance their children's upbringing they should exercise a bit of respect and restraint towards those who don't have that privilege.

I do accept that SAHMs get it in the neck from WOHMs too and there are some ugly stereotypes thrown around on here. But I don't even think this is about this. It's about people who are privileged having the grace and respect not to rub their privilege in the nose of others.

These kinds of comments are roughly equivalent to someone who has sufficient money to put their children through private school saying "poor kids" about those who attend the local comprehensive. Pretending that they are driven by concern for the children, it's actually a blatant opportunity to have a go at people who for whatever reason make you feel bad about your own choices.

I totally defend any woman's right to work or not as she sees fit. And critically I think women who don't need to work financially have as much right to do so as those who do need to work.

But women who are financially supported and have the choice not to work should not be sneering at or judging women who aren't.

LoveLarry · 01/09/2022 17:54

pinklavenders · 01/09/2022 15:37

Technically any mother raising their child is a full time mother. Whether they work outside the home or not, they don't stop being a mother when they leave the house!!!

I think we've covered this several times - yes technically a mother is and will always be a mother!

BUT if a mother works outside the home she obviously has less time at home, so less time to look after her family and home. It's really not that difficult to understand that point!!!

But that doesn't mean she's not a full time mother

I'm not a part time mother just because I work

Itsbritneybitch22 · 01/09/2022 17:56

I don’t think ybu but I also don’t think she meant it in a way that you’re taking it, she probably feels inadequate compared to you going to work and just said it to act like she’s doing something too? I might be wrong but seemed to read that way to me.

Faciadipasta · 01/09/2022 17:58

If people have the luxury of not having to worry about how to finance their children's upbringing they should exercise a bit of respect and restraint towards those who don't have that privilege.

I do accept that SAHMs get it in the neck from WOHMs too and there are some ugly stereotypes thrown around on here. But I don't even think this is about this. It's about people who are privileged having the grace and respect not to rub their privilege in the nose of others.

See I think this is a really unfair comment. I used to be a SAHM to twins until they reached reception age. I can absolutely guarantee you it was neither a choice nor a privilege to me. I wanted to work but I didn't have family for free childcare and paid for childcare for 2 children was considerably more than my salary. So.i gave up my job.
I do now work again - I took a job which started exactly 2 weeks after they started school, but it's not the job I used to do and love.

chopc · 01/09/2022 17:59

I disagree with other posters. You are both full time mums as you don't stop being a parent when you are at work although you don't do caring duties.

It depends on the context but if she was taking a dig I would have had a come back as I am petty like that

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