Fucking hate this term

[MolliciousIntent]

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

it's not just semantics, people feel sensitive and judged

Only over thinking middle class types seem to feel like this...no one else cares...trust me.

The people, many of my personal friends literally have to work yes.

Many NCT mum's seemed to be more obsessed with the latest taps , extension's, expensive highlights and Holidays and then said " I have to work" 🤣🤣.

I used to think, " yes I would also have to work if I wanted to fund 100£ highlight's , monthly hair dressers, holdidays to Barbados, fancy taps, an extension"🤣.

Instead ,I worked on sourcing the cheapest food by being available to get the massive last mark downs of good food across 4 supermarkets. Sourcing toys/clothes/furniture etc all for free or extremely cheap.

We didn't go on expensive holiday's but got out by the odd youth hostel stay.

• The year's they were young flew by and now I work. They see mummy working. They go on nicer holidays, we don't have a fancy hot water tap but we have a better tap . 🤣

Mummy will never get 100£ high lights.

I feel as rich as Midas after coping in those extremely lean years!

Honestly I almost find it insulting to those like me who went down to the bread line to survive on one small wage,and /or insulting to my friends who were /are single parents left in the worst situations struggling alone.
Although I do have another wealthy friend in the USA who put her only child into nursery from 3 months because that's what they do there?! And she has to work.
Both earning great wages!

Up to a point. And certainly everyone should try to take responsibility for their emotions. But with an issue like this, which is intensely political, comments like this don't take place in a vacuum.

Anyone saying they are a "full time mummy" is clearly implying that a working mother is not a "full time mummy" and that comes with certain propaganda about what you are bringing to the "mummying" (excuse the nauseating fake verb) if you don't have a job.

People who post this sort of thing understand very well what they are doing and at some level they are trying to get a reaction out of those of us who for whatever reason can't be "full time mummies". For whatever reason.

For those of us who are forced to work in order to support our kids, because no one else is offering us that support, it feels like a slap in the face for someone with the luxury of being financially supported by a man to look down on us for being inadequate parents. And moreover some of us simply won't have it. I work FT (and more) and I know I'm a good parent so I'm damned if I will have someone who lives off their husband look down on me for not having won the magic man lottery.

If that makes me sound lacking in emotional resilience, so be it. I do feel like like an insult and I'm happy to own this. It doesn't take much for someone to take a step back and consider the reasons why someone may have to work so a bit of respectful restraint would be appreciated.

@eastegg

It was a general comment. But there are lots of comments judging wms some subtle some less so. Mostly ignored by sahms while they moan about being judged/not valued.

Thinking sahms could call themselves unemployed is hardly contemptuous or horrible

Maybe you need to reflect on why you're so offended by it.

@Thepeopleversuswork

Exactly

Sahms on these threads often like to pretend like being a sahm isn't viewed as the societal ideal (backed up by societal surveys)

The implications of I'm a full time mum are very clear

Claiming its innocent and no one should care while getting all butt hurt about what constitutes a job or unemployed

@Thepeopleversuswork - that would be fine, if it was only mums who don't have outside employment who ever said anything derogatory about mums who also work. Yet in the very same post you say things like "someone who lives off their husband look down on me". You don't know that they are making judgements about you in reverse, you've just decided they are because it makes you feel bad. You don't know that these women aren't living off their own savings either, you're making judgements and certainly appear to be disdainful of their choices if they are being financially supported as part of a couple. You don't know where a child's additional needs might affect decisions, nor where health or total family income post-childcare costs have an effect. There are even others in the thread demanding any SAHM be called unemployed!

Please hear the point again. Your feelings are your own problem to deal with, it is not helpful to ask for others to change how they talk ABOUT THEMSELVES due to your own issues of self worth. I would say the same if a SAHM moaned about the phrase working mums; everyone should just work on their own insecurities instead of sneering at people who make different choices.

I used "full time mum", I wasn't suggesting anything about being a better mother, or judging those that worked. I was happy and at peace with my choice and I didn't (still don't) have the need to judge others on their choice. I think being a working mother looks hard, and I think it should get support not judgement.

The only reason I use "full time mum" is because that explained and conveyed the situation concisely, usually because people aren't interested in the day to day of that lifestyle. it meant the conversation could carry on to something that was more interesting.

The phrase "full time mum" was forced onto stay at home mothers because of the way that people are judged for their occupation, and I don't know anyone who used it as judgement about working mothers. I was not unemployed, I was living a lifestyle I chose and was able to carry out.

Your choice not to work when they were small. There are consequences to any choice.

Your feelings are your own problem to deal with, it is not helpful to ask for others to change how they talk ABOUT THEMSELVES due to your own issues of self worth. I would say the same if a SAHM moaned about the phrase working mums

Exactly

This

@MRex

everyone should just work on their own insecurities

Exactly.

So sahms should stop caring if others call them unemployed and stop demanding people value the role.

Honestly I almost find it insulting to those like me who went down to the bread line to survive on one small wage,and /or insulting to my friends who were /are single parents left in the worst situations struggling alone.

Although I do have another wealthy friend in the USA who put her only child into nursery from 3 months because that's what they do there?! And she has to work.

Both earning great wages!

And?

What business is it of yours whether she works or not. She may just want to work - it may give her more than just a financial reward.

@LittleBearPad

Have you not read any of this thread? Many of us simply do not have the choice not to work.

I have never had this option. And I do consider it insulting when people who do have this choice look down on me.

Does she not realise you can take a child into town?!!

@

I have read the thread and I think you’ve missed my point? I think it’s insulting for any woman to look down on a working mother.

But then I’m the most judged type of WOHM as I don’t have to work from a financial point of view. I just want to!

How do you know this?

No. You've got confused.

Everyone should refer to themselves in a way that makes them feel comfortable, and not judge others for the choices they make nor.the words they use to describe their own life. What you want to do here is to describe others in a way that many wouldn't like, that's just being mean to no good purpose. Be happy with your own choices and you'll find that other people's choices simply won't bother you so much.

@MRex

I am happy withy own choices. I dont agree choices should always be free of judgement.

If others don't like my judgement of their choices or the terminology I isd thats their issue. Their emotional resilience to work on.

I can disagree with a judgement or choice without being personally affected by it.

Individual choices affect society in lots of ways

Its not as simple as saying they have no impact on anyone else.

Sorry, going slightly off-topic.

I was the nanny for a Mum in the public eye.

I worked minimum 50 hours per week. She would often say in interviews "oh, DH is away so much, I have to do all the childcare myself, I feel like a single mum."

Fuck off, love. Even when you are at home, I do everything with the kids.

So sahms should stop caring if others call them unemployed

They care because it is incorrect - they are not 'unemployed' as they are not looking for work!

They are choosing not to look for paid work OUTSIDE the home.

@Topgub - that's an interestingly abrasive attitude towards others, personally I try to save judgement for those who actively seek to harm others, too much wasted mental energy to be otherwise. You do you though, for sure, as long as you don't try to upset people in person it's all good.

Haven’t RTFT but these discussions always are heated because it’s such an emotive subject, and people can understandably become defensive about their choices (or lack of) with regards to being SAHM/SAHP/mum/dad out to work etc.

My personal view is that when you have a child, you are a parent 24/7, no matter whether you are out at work, at home, your kids are at school, whatever. You are still ultimately responsible for those children, even if they’re in childcare. So I don’t like the phrase, ‘full time mum/dad’ for parents who are at home with their children, and not working outside of the home because everyone is all full time parent. The difference is, people who are out at work have a job as well as being a full time parent- albeit they have childcare and so on and no one can argue that SAHP are not spending more time with their kids than parents who work outside the home- it’s fact. Doesn’t make them better, or worse, parents.

I have done both- and both are hard. Both have pros and cons. Both come with their own set of emotions and reactions, negative and positive, from people.

What I would like to see is more support and more choice for everyone. I know mums who have had to rush back to work when the baby is 6 months old because they really don’t have a choice. Equally I know mums who can’t go back to work because the cost of childcare is just too much.

The only thing that slightly irritates me is mums (or dads) of NT children who are at full time school, so no babies or toddlers at home, and don’t work outside the home (or WFH) and still moan that they ‘never have any time’.

Yes, but she would have to! OP, presumably, leaves her child with someone else when she goes to work in London. I know I wasn't there, but the friend sounds a bit envious. Unnecessarily so, as OP is only going to London to work!

But then I’m the most judged type of WOHM as I don’t have to work from a financial point of view. I just want to!

No that's fine if you have a career that you love!