Fucking hate this term

[MolliciousIntent]

Conversation today with an acquaintance, who is a SAHP, has oddly kinda upset me. I've just gone back to work after 6m mat leave and mentioned that I'll be going into London for work now and then - she said "oh it's been ages since I went to London, but then again I am a full time mum."

I'm probably just tired and stressed, but it felt like a bit of a guy punch. I'm a full time mum too. I just work as well. I've seen SAHMs described as full time mums before, now I think about it, and it makes me feel weird.

Do people really think working mums are part time parents? Or was she just having a dig?

I have to admit I could not wait to get back to work, lol! All the mums talked about was the colour of poo or they were bragging - Johnny did ABC yesterday, he's a genius etc...

SAHMs don't all 100% parent either, many use nurseries, child minders and babysitters, whereas if you're like me, we didn't. My DH looked after the DCs whilst I worked.
When the SCs were old enough for nursery, his full time parenting duties ended. Do SAHMs and SAHDs say they are part time at this stage? Unlikely...

I think you’re touchy because you’ve got issues about going back to work so early. Fair enough if you want to/have to, but there’s no need to look for offence everywhere.

Like it or not, you are not actively parenting whilst you are at work. The childcare is being done by someone else for 8 hours per day or whatever.

SAHPs could run around being offended by the term “working mother” which would be equally ridiculous and unnecessary. Live your life, let others love theirs. Don’t try and find offence, and don’t project.

@eastegg

No. I'm not agreeing with you. In no way does not acknowledging a comment mean you're agreeing with it.

You clearly do have a side.

Its ridiculous to suggest that pointing out wm are still full time mums is anti women.

Oh eff off.

No one says of fathers with a SAHW, ‘He’s reliant on his wife’s labour to further his career’

its only when these tiresome out downs are aimed at.

That should have said, ‘it’s only women these tiresome put downs are aimed at’

@Onebreathmore

No one says of fathers with a SAHW, ‘He’s reliant on his wife’s labour to further his career’

Yes many people do say this.** I have seen many SAHMs say this is part of the reason they don't work.

While I much prefer the term, SAHM, In the context of not going to London, what the friend said, full time mum make’s more sense. . She doesn’t have a paid job, so has no need to go to London for it. SAHM sounds more like she’s tied to the house and can’t possibly take her kids to London.

Is part time education offensive? Because you’re still a student and could still be reading lecture notes when you’re not physically in lectures?

Or part time job, because you’re still an employee even when you’re not there?

Full time/part time doesn’t say anything about your status or identity, just the amount of time actively fulfilling a certain role.

Parents who actively parent full-time: full-time parents.

Earning money to be able to feed, house and clothe a child is 100% part of the role of parenting. It is not a job to SAHM. It’s sometimes not easy I’m sure but not a job. When I am on annual leave from work I do not consider myself to be ‘working’ on those days. It is relaxing and fun. I still have to do housework and look after the children but it’s definitely not the same as work.

If the other parent wasn’t working how would you provide for the children?

Not judging SAHM or WOHM, do what’s right for your family, but everyone with children is a full time parent.

Also, the poster that said she can’t use childcare or go out until after 8. No different to working parents-if you want to use childcare you can but you need to pay for it. Lots of working parents also would need to wait for the other parent to get home before being able to go out in the evening.

So, I stop being a mother between the hours of 9 and 5? Does it start again when I breastfeed during the day, or if I have lunch with my toddler, or is it a constant thing? If I work 40 hours a week I'm considered a full time employee, seeing as I'm doing the night wakes with my baby can I not count those hours towards my full-time mum quota, or is it only daylight care that counts?

You sound very touchy and defensive.

Of course you're a mother. Anyone with children is technically a mother.

But by leaving your home and offering your labour to someone else (or a company), you're no longer able to look after your family and home during that time.

A mother who chooses to offer her labour entirely to her family and home obviously has more time at home.

Earning money to be able to feed, house and clothe a child is 100% part of the role of parenting.

Obviously parents need to be able to afford any children they have!

But there's a concept called 'division of labour' where one partner chooses to focus on earning that money and the other partner focuses on looking after the home and family. That may not suit everyone but it can work very well.

You have to develop a thicker skin when defending your choice of lifestyle after becoming a mother. No matter the direction you go, which is both strange and unfortunate. I have been a full time mother for a long time, and when asked what I did, if I replied "I'm a mum", I just know they would laugh and say "but what do you DO?". I'm also considered a bit of an idiot based on my choice? I don't know if that's idiotic for liking it, or it turns me into an idiot.... but the thought is definitely there!

I was brought up by a single working mother, and I didn't want that for my kids. So I always knew if I had a family I wanted the option not to work. I married someone wealthy enough to allow me to comfortably stay at home, and I never regretted it. It's not forever, and if people think that defines me then so be it. Plenty of people are interested in me and my ideas, it just takes a bit longer to find them! 😁

Can’t believe this nonsense still going on! My eldest 16 and there were identical threads with identical views when she was a baby!

Yes it feels very raw and impassioned when they are tiny but you make your choices and crack on. Most people aren’t criticising your choices they are only interested in their own and if they are they are dicks anyway so ignore them.

Literally every sahm of babies and pre schools myself included is back at work it’s a life stage not an irrevocable choice. Saying unemployed is downright bitchy.

That's ridiculous. You are either a mum or you aren't regardless of your working situation. So in your case you are a mum who also happens to work outside the home. She is a SAHM.

I agree.

SAHPs don’t go off the clock when their child is asleep or their DH is home, so they are FT parents.

If they take a bath or go shopping whilst their DH looks after his child they’re not physically parenting at that moment but they’re still a FT parent.

Same as working parents, they’re still a FT parent whether they’re at work, the child is asleep or at nursery or school.

The only difference is 1 has a job and 1 doesn’t.
The one who doesn’t have a job is classed as a SAHP.

It doesn’t matter if you are a working parent or SAHP but the facts are that any parent (who is involved) is a FT parent.

Although I wouldn’t get upset over a parent saying they were a FT parent as I know what they were trying to say.

The discussion is not about what defines a parent. Having children does.

It's about women choosing to offer their labour either outside the home or within the home.

You have to develop a thicker skin when defending your choice of lifestyle after becoming a mother. No matter the direction you go, which is both strange and unfortunate.

I completely agree.

It really annoys me that as mothers we are judged or feel guilty constantly for our lifestyle choices.
Often our lifestyle isn’t even a choice, we do what we have to do.

If you are a SAHP you are judged that you are lazy, can’t be bothered to work and are setting a bad example for your DCs.

If you work you are judged that you are uncaring, have no maternal instinct and it’s unfair on your DCs as you should want to be at home with them.

Women can’t win and it’s important as women we don’t judge ourselves or other women for their lifestyle choices.

it’s important as women we don’t judge ourselves or other women for their lifestyle choices.

Exactly. If a woman enjoys and can afford to stay at home and look after her family and home, great. And if she chooses or needs to offer her labour to an outside employer, that's great too!

I haven’t suggested that. I’m saying your contemptuous posts are anti women. Pretty much the only thing I have said on this thread is to call out your contempt for SAHMs, which I think is pretty appalling. Your trying to widen what I’ve said to something it isn’t.

*You’re

The bit you missed is that it's actually exactly the same issue with the phrase working mums or working parent. They also aren't working 100% of the time, so no reason for work to define them, and it doesn't. SAHM can choose to get upset that they are also "working" looking after their child, so it might come across as a dig, if they are feeling fragile.

All terminology only becomes an issue when anyone starts throwing toys about the terminology another person uses to describe themselves. It's tricky, but also hugely important, to recognise that being offended is an active choice; OP could have decided to just empathise that her friend prefers that term and even might be feeling a bit left behind in not having a need to travel. Recognising it's our own insecurities that have caused the irritation and using a bit of compassion works better all ways around.

To me she's saying she hasn't been to London in a long time because she's got the kids all the time. I don't know why you would be offended by that unless she said it in a really snarky way.

As I said before, someone calling herself a full time mum isn't taking anything away from working mums.

I've been both a SAHM and a working mum, so understand both positions. What I don't understand is why so many on each side are so incredibly defensive of their own decision and judgy of the others. Not a thing seems to have changed since I had my first 36 years ago.

OP, you're a mum always. You know that, she knows that. She was simply trying to express without having to use about a dozen words in the interests of accuracy, that she does mum related work during what is your working day.

Getting wound up about it makes no sense.

All terminology only becomes an issue when anyone starts throwing toys about the terminology another person uses to describe themselves. It's tricky, but also hugely important, to recognise that being offended is an active choice; OP could have decided to just empathise that her friend prefers that term and even might be feeling a bit left behind in not having a need to travel. Recognising it's our own insecurities that have caused the irritation and using a bit of compassion works better all ways around.

---->
Your last paragraph sums it up. @MRex 👏👏

Out of interest, how do you describe yourself, OP? As a working mum maybe? Can you understand that that also comes with a dismissive side to it?

There simply isn't a good, fully accurate and comprehensive term for either set of people. If there was, we'd use it. In the meantime we use the imperfect ones, and need to just get over ourselves.

@pinklavenders

You do know that working parents do both right?

You appear to be suggesting that a woman who 'offers her labour outside of the home' does none within the home? Rather than the reality which is they do double the work?

@eastegg

I'm not sure what you find contemptuous. I'm not anti women. I dont support every choice every woman makes. If you find that anti women then that's OK but it doesn't make it true.

All this tone policing and claiming no one should judge anyone (while clearly but subtly judging working mums) is hilarious.