To think it’s unwise to lose the idea of God(s) in society?

[Digita]

To think it’s unwise to lose the idea of God(s) in society?

Whenever I hear people arguing why faith in any sort of higher being is 'stupid' or 'delusional' I wonder if they've thought through the wider implications of a godless society. It might not be all that it's cracked up to be... the idea of higher beings might be invented but invented for a reason too. Is there a need for a philosophical concept of something more for accountability, law and order?

“Society needs reasons for people to tell the truth even when it is to their disadvantage.” Why swear on a Bible? The Courts have kept swearing an oath on religious texts because there’s still a psychological, moral force behind it.

"Co-operation is a key component in human interaction and also, according to new research from the University of British Columbia, the spread of civilisation. Not because for any altruistic reason, though; instead it might be directly down to a fear of a vengeful god." Fear of punitive gods linked to rise of human civilisation’

‘A new study published in the journal, Nature, tests the theory that communities are fair and cooperate with outsiders because of the fear of divine retribution.’ ‘Moralistic gods, supernatural punishment and the expansion of human sociality’

How on earth is it an insult?! There is absolutely zero evidence that your particular god (just the one you believe in, not the 1000s that went before yours) exists so clearly it must be something that people make up and imagine and which exists only in their mind 🤷‍♀️

If I've got that wrong and you can tell me where to look to see your particular god then let me know!

Er, no. But as with many religions, it's interpretation of what's 'right' that's the issue.

If we're talking about general concepts of morality, like killing, stealing, adultery etc. then these were around long before religion sought to take ownership of them and to add other concepts wrapped up in a way that divided people into groups (good and evil).

The Courts have kept swearing an oath on religious texts because there’s still a psychological, moral force behind it.

Don't agree. It's a pointless act unless you believe in the book that you're swearing on.

Religion does not own morality. It was invented to control and manipulate the poor

Spirituality is important for humans and that impulse can be fulfilled in all sorts of ways: … but organised religion today is tainted by selfishness, scandal, conflict and patriarchal forces. Look at the damage to the rights of women in the US caused by religious nutcases. Look at the huge wealth hoarded by the Church of England when thousands are having to use food banks. Disgusting.

I'm am atheist I don't need a fictional thing to know how to treat people

It was clearly stories invented to control the populace and served its purpose

Most hate, war and division is created using religion.

The Roman Empire, as in the Roman Empire that worshipped gods and carried out the wishes of their gods…

Actually if you look at history in many societies things were not so straightforward.

Which were very cruel.

Wouldn't that suggest the 'god(s)' were invented to enforce morality?

Science doesn't tend to have masses of followers killing people in their thousands not conforming to one particular branch of science.

Unfortunately science kills us all in different ways and the misuse by shady corporations and us all is doing untold damage. We're slowly killing each other and the planet. Science has a different following, where the 'believers' operate in universities, companies and everywhere else. I'm an engineer and as evil as it gets.

It's hard to say what's worse but the common denominator is the human race. Perhaps the ultimate evil?

So why don’t you live in North Korea?

So you do prefer a society without gods, or you prefer a society with gods no matter the behaviour it leads to?

I'm agnostic, but think yes. God(s) or the theory of, have a place in society at a base level, its all the rest of the shit some religious people do that is the problem.

The whole swearing under oath thing is ridiculous though. Even the most devout will lie on the stand like its nothing. Might as well ask people to get on the stand and play a kazoo.

YABU. People should be good because it is better to help other people than to harm them; to make the world a better place rather than a worse place. Not out of fear of divine retribution in an afterlife (and not all religions do believe in that, in any case).

Religion when combined with goodwill toward others is a wonderful thing. Religion when used as a basis for group conflict or authoritarianism has horrible results; the attempted murder of Salman Rushdie is just one of many many such results.

And I am not at all sure that the fear of God sending you to hell sometime in the future is all that effective in getting most people to change their ways. After all, the fear of Nature sending the world to 'hell' through climate change hasn't so far been all that effective in getting most of us to change our ways.

Obviously not as historically, various things were accepted (slavery for instance) as the concept of morality changes over time. Hence the difficulties with judging historic events under current standards.

I'm talking generally but as I say, morality (in whatever form) preceded religion. Religion was an attempt to sanitise and regulate.

It's possible there's a religion remaining which can still claim some sort of moral high ground. Buddhism maybe.

Otherwise they offer nothing but fear, guilt and hatred and are riddled with centuries of abuse.

Ah yes, because that’s the only alternative to having religion in society. Because the Ustashe were all good Catholics, and no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

We find our deities.

There are some highly questionable morals on display in some of the holy books. The bible contains incest that isn’t punished, homophobia, women treated as second class citizens… humans don’t need this as a guide to how we should conduct ourselves.

And this thing about why don’t I as an agnostic move to North Korea, well no. I already live in a society that is on a practical level, secular.

You know that Zeus is going to smite you down right? Whilst Dionysus dances over your twitching corpse.

I believe Jacob Stalin, Mao and Pol Pit believed that too!“

do you mean Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot?

So, what’s your point? That even nutters can be right about some things?

So why don’t you live in North Korea?

Because mankind can invent other controlling dogmas, not just the ones with a supernatural element.

Suicide bombing is entirely faith based.

Given the widespread abuse within the Catholic church I'd say believing in a higher deity means nothing when it comes to good, honest decent morals.

"God" has absolutely no place in my life and I've managed to be a better person than many religious types.

It's notable that Buddhism isn't theistic.