I have outgrown men

[Namechanged007]

Before all the namalt brigade come along I'm well aware.

Thing is it's true I have outgrown the ridiculouness and childishness of men.

I'm married but even so I feel like I'd be better off alone most of the time. Nothing wrong with dh as such but I'm more able and stronger alone.

I have just been to the pub and all the women were complimentary of each other. Going with the flow. And enjoying themselves. The men were either grumpy or showing brovado. There was an incident on our table that involved new men intimidating each other and I just went home.

The thing is this isn't a table of young men. It's professionals and grown ups. I just cant be bothered with it.

None of the women got involved but it spoilt the night.

I told dh I don't have time for such pathetic behaviour.

It never ends. It doesn't matter how old or wise we become men seem to revert back to this strange behaviour.

I deal with it day in day out at my work and I simply can't be bothered. If I never had to see another man, mansplaining, dominating conversation, throwing their weight around, bravado, dick measuring, causing a scene in my life it would be too soon.

Absolutely done with it.

That book by Paul Dolan and his claim that married women were less happy than single women was widely debunked:

www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/6/4/18650969/married-women-miserable-fake-paul-dolan-happiness

My dad was the most selfless, caring man so I’ve never been tolerant of male bullshit. When I was young and certainly not now I’m in my 50s. I have been blunt and rude and I don’t care. If men are dicks and it’s significantly affecting me then I will call them out on it. Every single time.

As a consequence I don’t have your problem. The men in my life are great. My DH is not a dick-swinging ego maniac - he puts his family first in all things. My son is still learning but I am prepared to clash with him when on the rare occasion he’s being less than delightful. All the men in our friendship circle and extended family are family men with integrity.

You need to call it out. I couldn’t suffer in silence but generally women who hate it aren’t vocal enough.

Wow. It’s absolutely a fact then. There’s a Guardian article about someone’s book

I wouldn't say I'd never get involved with another man. I'm completely happy being single. However, I'm fairly sure I won't live with another man. And 99.99% certain I won't marry again. I have friends of both sexes I get along fine with, I just don't feel a need for anything further. There are plenty of dickish men hanging around, but I refuse to have anything to do with them. I just walk away. If I need a professional of any sort, I'll choose a woman. It's so much more pleasant to deal with people who have been socially conditioned to consider other people's feelings and not had, and continue to expect, their path smoothed by make privilege.

I just think it's so hard not to fall into the dynamic of doing all the emotional labour and carrying the mental load, even if you manage to share the physical load. And holding those boundaries sounds like REALLY hard work. It really seems to be that many men (to differing extents) expect to be parented in a relationship. And I'm am not up for parenting anyone but my actual child ever again.

I really, REALLY want a period of being utterly selfish. I feel like I've spent my life putting other peoples's well-being before mine and I'm just over it. I don't mean dropping litter and not holding doors, just making decisions based on only my own preferences. I'm not sure how long this phase might last, or if it's just the rebound of being a single parent for so long, but I very much want to be in a position where I don't feel obliged to consider others. That doesn't seem like a good place to start any kind of relationship, does it?

Yeah, the funniest bit is that Paul Dolan based most of his claim on this “spouse absent” column in the survey. He thought the happiness recorded under “spouse present” meant asked while the spouse was in the room, and “spouse absent” was how happy are you asked while the woman was alone and her spouse was out of the room. So he thought, ah hah! They’re lying when their spouse is there, and telling the truth when the spouse isn’t present. They’re actually fucking miserable.

Turns out, from an expert economist who works with the data and knows how the survey is done is that “spouse absent” means the spouse is not living with the woman but away due to work, separation, military service, prison, deported, etc. Spouse present means they currently live together. The questions are never asked with the spouse in the room. So married women who are living apart from their spouse, are (understandably) fucking miserable. But married women living with their spouse are generally happier than unmarried women.

His claim that unmarried women are healthier than married in the article doesn’t even reflect the study he cited in his book. That study says that unmarried women have a 50% higher mortality rate than married women.

You see this is the problem with books, there is no peer review or fact checking before publication.

@Overdon I love your Mum! :-)
I'm a widow too & the first few years after my (much loved) DH died, wannabe replacements were lining up. (Am older, fatter & not as pretty now!!) I wasn't interested, & realised just how NEEDY men are. A huge turn-off.
Happy on my own, & I don't encourage female friends either, tbh. Love my own space & making my own decisions.

Same. I'm sure male behaviour on the whole has got much worse over the last few decades.

I really can see where you are coming from, OP. I do not wish to generalise, I know there are decent people of any gender. However, I have grown up in a circle of strong women and (dare I say it) 'weak' men. This has, perhaps coloured my judgement.

My mother (now in her nineties) was strong at a time when it was difficult for women to be strong. When she was engaged to my father, she saved up and paid the lion's share of the money required to build their marital home. Then, after my mother and father had married, my paternal grandfather asked them to leave their home and live in a run down old house on the adjacent farm (I will not go into the complications of farming families).

My mother wanted my father to stand up to his father, but he did/could not, and my mother (now pregnant with her second child) moved, and spent what was left of her savings putting electricity and hot water into the rundown house.

The marriage lasted for nearly sixty years, and during that time, my mother made most of the decisions, and pulled the business out of various messes.

My sister married a man who had a few issues, and I also married someone who I thought was an equal partner, but who proved to be disastrously incompetent, so I had to work multiple jobs and do the main part of parenting.

Time and time again, within my family and within the communities in which I have lived, women have been, or have had to become, strong enough, rational enough and composed enough to 'carry' the weaker partner (who is usually a man). I think this is what is at the root of misogyny: women (in general) are capable of being much stronger than men, and men know this.

Menopausal, caring hormones definitely plummeted. I've stopped being the support human in my house and the household don't like it , eg DH,DS and DD. Its outrageous of me to expect equal labour and apparently and DH does much more. He doesn't btw. I earn the most, pay for a cleaner, organise everything eg bills insurance birthday's etc. He occasionally does the washing and dishwasher. He's a hero apparently and I'm lucky to have him. DD has moved out and understands now. Withdraw your labour unless it suits you. The dog appreciates me though.

I watched my stolen revolution on Netflix recently about Iraqi women, some being imprisoned after fighting alongside men to displace the Shah.

Those women were completely fucked over and are so strong, so inspiring, watch it if you can . They have kept their compassion and humour some how and it was the support of other women who kept them going.

Theyre at the far end of the Patriarchal scale we are all on I feel so lucky to he at the other easier end. However, fuck this shit with men, so many of us are done now it seems. Porn and easy sex in the Tinder age seem to be making them so much worse. Our poor girls.

I agree. I would not not marry or live with a man again, in fact I can’t see myself having a relationship with one at all. Much better to do your own thing.

How old are you? As I passed my mid 30s I realised that I had no time for most men and theirs shite! Turning 40 meant I became invisible to the majority of men, and god was that a relief, an unexpected bonus!
i’m gay and genuinely wonder how my straight friends put up with some of the crap they do, the bar seems so low for many men!
that being said I do have some very close male ( gay and straight friends) - another advantage of being gay is that you don’t have to put up with a lot of the bs and just chose the good ones.

‘Withdraw your labour unless it suits you.’

did this for a week in our house - realised that a lot of the ‘mental load’ was falling to me and it wasn’t appreciated. I worked PT to DWs FT, but did more kids stuff.
Although DW is clean and tidy I was doing a lot of the unseen stuff.
worked like a dream. Just one week of no-one knowing where they’re supposed to be and with which kits/ lunch etc and things got back to being equitable very fast!
I still d

My Dad believes the age of men is on the decline and we will not want them around. Responsible for far too much evil and have too much power.

@Annieisalright ''Anyone who has to resort to online dating is usually then surfing through the dregs. So it's hardly a good comparison''

So according to you everyone who has ever used online dating is by definition a loser.

You really have a wonderful view of the world.

The advice about changing your circle etc is not en

(Oops.. fat fingers)

The advice about changing your circle is not entirely bad. It's not NAMALT to point out that men are not a monolith, but a set of tribes. You are describing Tribe Twat, who have long been, unfortunately, seen as Default Masculinity, and are definitely a large group. Other male tribes also look at them and say "Ffs." But Twats gonna twat.

Of course it’s not all men, but I do find it weird how some posters are defending the sex class when it’s absolutely true that the vast majority of violence women experience is at the hands of men — and it’s a lot.

I am lucky enough to have a really great guy in my life now, but that wasn’t always the case. And he will openly say how disgusting he finds many other men. He works in a trade and he’s surrounded by porn-addled, toxic males who think the only worth females have is one-time throwaway sex. It’s revolting.

But violence isn't what this post was about to begin with

Also I may add the comments when posters start similar threads about women are day and night. It's hypocritical tbh

There was a post the other week about only having male friends and finding women difficult to get on with, and the comments on there were something else

How dare you categorize all women as bitchy

You just haven't met the right people

Maybe you are the problem op

Very similar post, not saying all women etc. but oddly enough many were quick to defend women as a sex

On a macro level, I agree with you. Men as a class, and especially in groups, have been socialised to behave like immature dick heads.

But it also does sound like your DH and circle are particularly twatty.

My DH is not like this. He’s mature, reflective, funny, polite, cares about people. I think I ‘got lucky’.

If I was without him I don’t think I’d be up for another serious relationship. But that’s less about men being twats and more about me maturing as a woman and realising I’d be fine alone. I’m capable, I have great friends, but I also love my own company.

Not a loser

But also unlikely to be the pinnacle of the dating arena

Those who need to date online usually do so as they're not able to find someone IRL

And there will 9/10 be a reason for that

So yes, when comparing it with online dating it's a bit disingenuous as most of the 'good' men are snapped up well before they can say 'tinder'

Although I do believe NAMALT, I understand. I was working away from home all summer with a new group of people. The men (not all but enough for me to notice) mansplained, monologued, had no respect for trainers' personal space or free time, negged the female trainers. The women worked hard, stuck to the guidelines, quietly excelled. Of the people running the training courses, the men pontificated and spouted blue sky babble while the women ran ragged troubleshooting (problems which were often due to the male organisers altering what the female organisers had carefully planned, without thinking through the repercussions.)

What I particularly noticed was that the men were absolutely incapable of conversation - speak then listen, comment on what the other person says, listen again. They could only talk at you or shut down and zone out. Zero ability to listen!

One man was notably not like this. He had good EI and although he was middle aged and overweight, the most beautiful women in the room clustered around him as though he were a god. Just because he had a few desirable traits possessed by most of the women.

I feel this way. I think it’s definitely a menopause thing. When we’re younger we have oestrogen and it makes us feel nuturing and caring and we turn a blind eye to all this shit, even sometimes thinking it’s funny or endearing. Then when our oestrogen drops its like a curtain falling and you see men for what they really are, particularly older men who haven’t been pulled up on things in the way younger men have.

I always think it’s very telling that most older women choose not to remarry and want to live alone if they find themselves single again after 55 plus whereas men tend to make it a priority to find someone again.

Perhaps all the men had in common was that they had been dragged to a gathering of women by their other halves?

Also, I think men are less inclined to regard talking as an end in itself, it's more of a side-effect of pursuing common interests or a time-filler when circumstances prevent you doing something you actually enjoy. (Women are on average more interested in people than men are, men are on average more interested in things than women are.)

I also wonder how much of this is a generational divide

As many on here with this view state they've hit the menopause

I've never, in a social or work setting encountered any men as described, but then again am younger and things such as mansplaining does tend to be an older male stereotype.

Same with the dick measuring and sport obsession in the pub

I've never been out with friends and had this, but then again I don't hang out with 50+ year old men.

As I can definitely see some of these traits described in older male family members at times and thinking back through the years.

My younger female family members male friends are also even better for this type of thing.

Almost entirely all of the shit in the world is caused and led by men.

Almost everything remarkable, good or bad, "is caused and led by men". Males as a group produce extremists, good and bad, women are much more middle-of-the-road. I don't think women are better or worse than men, but I do think the good and bad they do is of a type that is less likely to be in the news, or the history books. (I don't believe the subjugation of women is the only reason women feature less in history books.)

Of course 99% of men are as unremarkable as 99.99% of women, the number of people who do anything notable is tiny.