I have outgrown men

[Namechanged007]

Before all the namalt brigade come along I'm well aware.

Thing is it's true I have outgrown the ridiculouness and childishness of men.

I'm married but even so I feel like I'd be better off alone most of the time. Nothing wrong with dh as such but I'm more able and stronger alone.

I have just been to the pub and all the women were complimentary of each other. Going with the flow. And enjoying themselves. The men were either grumpy or showing brovado. There was an incident on our table that involved new men intimidating each other and I just went home.

The thing is this isn't a table of young men. It's professionals and grown ups. I just cant be bothered with it.

None of the women got involved but it spoilt the night.

I told dh I don't have time for such pathetic behaviour.

It never ends. It doesn't matter how old or wise we become men seem to revert back to this strange behaviour.

I deal with it day in day out at my work and I simply can't be bothered. If I never had to see another man, mansplaining, dominating conversation, throwing their weight around, bravado, dick measuring, causing a scene in my life it would be too soon.

Absolutely done with it.

I suspect there’s a lot of the thread you haven’t read. I’ll leave it at that.

I have read this whole thread.

You are clearly histrionic and prone to making all manner of claims to anyone nearby.

I pity those close to you irl.

If that’s all you’re after why not get paid to do it then?

Wtaf?! I can’t even understand why you would say this. Women can enjoy sex without it being about a relationship. Being paid for sex would be about fulfilling the man’s desires not your own.

Yes I know women can enjoy such sex too. That’s kind of my point, if you want no strings attached, no spending the night, no conversation or flirting just a quick hey want to fuck? Then that’s your desire not the man’s desire, he’s just a means to an orgasm. So why not earn some cash too? I don’t see the point of seeking out a dick for some dick and also passing up the opportunity for some cash on the side. It’s not like you can’t be choosy and reject a man, just because you’re charging £500. You still can.

Some extremely mixed-up and bizarre misogynist thinking here. Women enjoying some casual sex with a man of their choice, is clearly so unthinkable that you equate it to being a prostitute? Wtf.

Obviously the idea that women might have any kind of bodily autonomy and sexual agency of their own, is so foreign to you that you think that enjoyable no-strings sex might just as well be acting as a paid piece of meat for hire for any man’s sexual degradation. The two things are so far apart that they are barely even on the same planet.

Now, @Discovereads, you normally tend to go about winding up the posters on FWR; but this is truly one of the weirder things I’ve seen you post; and so tone deaf to how women actually view themselves that this post must be top of the list if anyone’s going around spotting covert men hidden about the place.

Apparently some of them take the bins out occasionally. That's handy

No, I’m not equating it to being a prostitute. You are slut shaming by calling my suggestion the same as being “a paid piece of meat for hire for any man’s sexual degradation”. It’s not at all, because you are still 100% choosing who you have sex with. You’re not a trafficked sex slave. You still have agency. You really have an uniformed superiority complex when it comes to your view of sex workers.

I’m saying, if you truly want no strings attached sex with no conversation, no flirting, no feelings involved, then why not get some cash on the side? I would. No man is entitled to my body, why should he benefit from my desire for anonymous sex for free? I think of it as a reparations payment for historic oppression.

Ah, I’m “slut shaming” by describing getting paid for sex as prostitution? As opposed to the nice fantasy happy high class hooker kind of “sex work” that we all know is basically a fantasy of very deluded men? Pull the other one — it’s got bells on it!

Now, if you really want anti-men rhetoric, it’s not women complaining that men are dull: no; it’s this post which suggests that if a eons would like some casual sex with a man she’s attracted to, she might as well ask for cash for it. £500? Yeah, hook up with a sexy man at a club and of course he’ll be happy to pay out for sex; what man wouldn’t?

Assuming all men are basically punters is the most “misandrous” [sic] thing on the thread. You are the one with the lowest opinion of men on it. And women, too. We all might as well be prostitutes really, out for the cash, why not? What a fucking misanthropic view of the world.

Anyway, I’m sure our resident other pro-prostitution posters will be on any minute to add their support for the idea that all women are basically prostitutes and all men are sex-purchasers.

I think of it as a reparations payment for historic oppression.

Oh, yeah. Maybe you could suggest that black people could set up something similar, like those charity slave auctions, pretending to be slaves for white people, only this time for cash payouts of £500 a time?

Or would that be in the most monstrous and offensive poor taste? I’ll let you decide!

Yes oh so misogynist to suggest a woman get the no strings attached sex she desires and enjoys AND make a few hundred quid doing it, but apparently not misogynist to insist she must fuck a man for free. 🙄

I mean why? Why is free better for us than getting money too? Could it be old patriarchal internalised misogyny that has brainwashed you into thinking you are only a decent woman if you gift yourself to men? Who benefits most from casual sex that is completely free? Why is it taboo to be paid for sex?

The happy hooker is a myth for two reasons, first majority of women are trafficked or driven to sex work through economic duress. Second, because most women only enjoy the kind of sex you describe now and then- not every day, 20 times a day.

However, you are thinking of this like it’s taking on a second job. Just because I go out clubbing and pick a man for a shag and tell him it’s £500 doesn’t mean I am committed to doing that ever again. And who cares what the man thinks? I’m not having any stimulating conversation with him, he could have only one semi-functioning brain cell and it’s not like Im ever going to see him again.

Not at all comparable. Bit desperate really to play a race card.

You are very seriously messed up. The reason most people don’t sell themselves for sex is that it is inherently degrading.

Your basic ideas of humanity, freedom, autonomy and personal respect are completely messed up, as is your moral compass. And the idea that women should sell themselves to men as revenge for “historical oppression” is more fucked up, bigoted against men and objectionable than anything else on the thread.

Your opinion of both women and men is clearly abjectly low; and you urgently need to reconnect with some genuine human values.

Given that on other threads you’ve said you’re an older late middle aged woman, is this sex payment fantasy just your own personal fantasy, or is it clearly one you think we should all aspire to? Because I’ve never in my life met an older middle aged woman who thinks stuff like this; and it’s like you’ve clearly just landed on planet “woman” very very recently (if you’ve landed at all rather than spinning off somewhere on another planet).

@Discovereads I can't decide if you're winding people up on purpose, have a really weird view of sex, or are just as daft as a brush.
But, anyway. Sex doesn't have to be transactional. It doesn't have to be about a woman selling sex as oppose to 'giving it' to a man for free.
It can simply be a shared activity which two people participate in together.
Like pool, for example.
You go to a bar, you fancy a game of pool. You identify someone who also wants to play, and off you go. You don't see it as something you've done for the others person's benefit. You don't charge them for your time. You haven't provided them with a service. You've just played pool together because you wanted to.
No swap the word pool for the word sex....

The reason most people don’t sell themselves for sex is that it is inherently degrading.. That’s what they’ve been told to think by a patriarchal society. Do a bit of reading on the whore-Madonna complex. The Madonna-Whore Complex is known as the distinction men draw between the women they desire and the women they respect - with the implication that those two categories are mutually exclusive. Men say it’s mutually exclusive, I say I’m not adhering to mens view of what I do with my body, nor do I give two shits about the threat to withdraw their ‘respect’.

Your basic ideas of humanity, freedom, autonomy and personal respect are completely messed up, as is your moral compass And who wrote the moral compass? Men. Of course men would put free sex on there as something to aspire to. They started the free love movement during the sexual revolution, but it was for the benefit of men and did not benefit women at all.

And the idea that women should sell themselves to men as revenge for “historical oppression”. That’s not what I said. I said if you’re planning on going out to find a man for a quick fuck, as in its something you want then why not get paid too? You’re going to have sex with a man of your choosing anyway. So you’re not technically “selling yourself to men” You’re just requiring a bit more than a free drink, and in my mind, it’s reparations not me selling myself. There’s no moral requirement to do for free something you enjoy.

Given that on other threads you’ve said you’re an older late middle aged woman, is this sex payment fantasy just your own personal fantasy, or is it clearly one you think we should all aspire to? It’s not a fantasy or an aspiration. It’s more of a practical proposition which admittedly, flies in the face of everything a patriarchal society says a decent, respectable woman should not do. I’m not a good girl, never was.

Because I’ve never in my life met an older middle aged woman who thinks stuff like this I’ve never met in real life any woman who thinks like you. Doesn’t mean you’re not a woman or you don’t really think what you say you think.

@5128gap
can't decide if you're winding people up on purpose, have a really weird view of sex, or are just as daft as a brush.. Well, I knew my view would shock many, but then many women can’t see the walls of their own prisons when it comes to sex.

Sex doesn't have to be transactional. I agree it doesn’t have to be transactional, but it also doesn’t have to be nontransactional. Sex can be transactional or nontransactional, it’s entirely up to you (or should be). It’s only this patriarchy that tells you that one is morally superior to the other, and that you should only engage in nontransactional sex….well why is that? Who’s saying that? And who benefits most? Men.

You don't see it as something you've done for the others person's benefit. You don't charge them for your time. You haven't provided them with a service.
I don’t see it as for the man’s benefit or a service to them. It’s a mutual benefit, but I happen to think I deserve more out of it than the man deserves.

No swap the word pool for the word sex..... The pool analogy ignores the fact that unlike pool. sex has risk and all the risks of sex are on us: Higher chance of contracting an STI (even with condoms), and chance of pregnancy (no contraception is 100% effective). Should we just ignore this? To me this is yet another reason why men should compensate women for sex in recognition of the risks they take in having sex, risks no man ever has to face.

@Discovereads If you make the choice to ask men for £500 for sex, that's entirely your own affair.
But you asked why other women wouldn't do it, and have been answered.
Ethical opinions aside, I'm not sure it's particularly viable either. Ime, most men don't routinely pay for sex.
Those that do either have barriers to finding women who will have consensual sex with them, or have particular tastes for exploitative practices. Neither of those things would motivate me to want sex with them.
I could be wrong, but I think you'll find that attractive men you meet in nightclubs would be less than enthusiastic at paying you for a routine sexual encounter.

most men don't routinely pay for sex. true most men do not routinely pay for sex, but a lot of their identity as a manly man is wrapped up in the ability to get sex for free (and then brag about it).

Those that do either have barriers to finding women who will have consensual sex with them, or have particular tastes for exploitative practices
This isn’t the case. They’re not incels or fetishists. They’re just regular blokes. In fact, a survey of men who have paid for sex found that 82% of their sexual partners were unpaid, so for every woman they pay for sex, there are 4 other women they’ve had sex with without paying anything at all. That view you have is purely stigma, a societal message to women that the “kind of man” that would pay is a big bad wolf type of man and best avoided. Whereas the “kind of man” who won’t pay is the “good guy”. Looking at statistics, it’s actually the “good guys”, the men who claim to love you that are most likely to assault or kill you.

Or pay some man to do it .

If a study including only men who have paid for sex, so therefore by nature skewed in favour of the minority that do, showed that even they only pay 20% of the time, I think that supports my assertion that there won't be many men hanging round nightclubs willing to pay £500.
And I'd have to disagree with you that men who pay for sex are 'just regular blokes' as to me, the fact that they would do that in itself sets them apart from men who wouldn't, and renders them unattractive to me. Not for a moment am I suggesting that simply not paying for sex makes a man a good guy. Goodness, what a low bar that would be! Merely that a willingness to pay would automatically rule them out.

Ooh yes. What an excellent idea!
And while we're at it we might as well pay £500 for it to get dark at night, and for the rain to fall on us in Manchester.

Do you know what it’s actually like to be single year after year, decades?
Because I do, it’s not fun.

You didn't choose it, I assume. The women on here saying they'll not bother with men are choosing the single life. Probably because, as women, they have likely a range of friends and interests which will get them out of the house and give them the social interaction they need.

Meanwhile, the very cross men on here who are so offended by the thread are doing nothing to convince these women of the error of their ways. 😂

This thread is bizarre - a group of women who are making their own choices, and yet somehow its turned to money being a proxy for value. either being paid for sex or paying a man (so he has "value") for sex.

For what its worth, I think this "relationless" model is probably going to grow in society, because women are getting a message that is all men want, and so it is literally all they have to give, so they can give or not on their own terms. That probably used to happen in a lot of marriages, but with domestic labour too. If you are a successful woman and have your own income, you just don't have to do that any more.

There’s always a few posters who pop up on MN with very odd porn-fantasy-meets-Ayn-Rand takes on “sex work”, which betray some kind of deep-rooted weird stuff going on, but which also always sound like they have rarely met any normal, well-adjusted person, either male or female. They seem to regard themselves as some sort of free thinkers outside social norms, but instead can never see how they just come across as desperate to reproduce the same old, same old status quo.

And the porny fantasies about how women getting paid for sex is empowering “revenge” against men, are straight out of the misogyny 101 teenage boy comic book film textbook, never remotely like the kind of radical proposition they seem to think they are.

It's far more common than I had imagined. I'm afraid I have no idea what the going rate is though. My son only gets 150 to pose nude for those hen night life drawing things mind you . But needs must when the devil drives.