Is it possible as a state school parent to emulate a private school education & how would a motivated one start?

[Superspender]

This thread is triggered from all the recent press about the Cambridges & Lambrook press.. Basically the press are harping on about the time spent outdoors etc, surely parents can do this for free etc.. Out of interest how can a motivated parent who can't afford private school emulate a private school education? Please be kind!

Convince your kids to sleep in the same room and only speak to them every other weekend

My parents were both educated in top public schools. In a fit of egalitarian guilt they sent us all to big- standard comprehensives in a working class area. The smallest class I was in was my A level History class of 15 pupils. Mostly I was in class groups of 35 to 40

But we also did:
a LOT of reading at home. We had books - both bought for us and weekly library trips, plus I had free access to my parents’ extensive book shelves (my father’s study was 3 walls of books). We were read to every night until I was about 12- that was when my youngest sibling was 8.

no television until after supper (which was at around 7pm)

A lot of extra curricular activities and not many of them sports (unless you count Pony Club). Ballet, music, singing, Guides and Brownies, riding lessons, and sailing lessons.

we did summer schools in things like painting, sculpture, music, theatre appreciation as well as doing youth theatre

we really were not encouraged to just sit around at home after school and on the weekend. We were expected to do things constructively. As a result, I’m reasonably proficient at a wide range of activities and skills.

My siblings and I are all very successful in a range of quite unusual careers and professions.

I think the thing that was most difficult was the bullying we came in for because of class differences. Other parents were very suspicious of children who read books and enjoyed school, and egged on their children to tease and taunt us.

It is hugely harmful to society because those who can afford it, and are already privileged, effectively create their own track in the world

This would be fine if they did not then decide to also put themselves in charge to govern the lives of everyone else. How can someone who has been through a system like that understand the lives of the other 90%+?

i say this as someone who is privately educated and can easily afford the same for my DC, but have actively chosen not to

It’s absolutely not just about the academic side. A bright child at a decent state school will probably do ok in this respect.

It’s knowledge of the existence of and/or experience of all the other stuff:

Riding
Skiing
Tennis
Hockey
Lacrosse
Debating
Sailing
Rugby
Cricket
Chess
Karting
Charity work
Playing sport at county level
Playing an instrument to a high level
Ability to talk confidently about all of the above even if you don’t do it yourself
Worthy or throw-away part-time jobs
Impeccable manners
Being ‘sleeves rolled up’ but not doing manual work for a living
A family that doesn’t just go on holiday, but ‘travels’
Confident in another language
Knowing about the existence of gap years/internships/training contracts
Knowing that not all universities are equal
Being able to wrangle all of the above into a good uni/job application
Knowing of the existence of a whole range of careers plus family/friends connections who can give access to insights/work experience into a chosen career
Financial education
Exposure to a very wide range of social situations
Knowing the social cues to fit in/stand out as required e.g. dress codes, hair styles, which shoes/bag/coat to wear
Knowing that all potential partners, adult friends, careers and places to live are not created equal
Living in a family where people read, watch documentaries, have detailed conversations and play games
Being able to take some risks in life because you know deep down that if something goes wrong, your family can bail you out
Being surrounded by others like this too

I think it's a lot about finding ways to enhance your children's lives in affordable and manageable ways

1. If you have a spare room, consider an au pair - everyone gets to learn to speak French.
2. Instil a respect and love of reading - children will follow the lead of parents who enjoy books and discuss them, have routines around reading, gift-giving of books, library events and favourite authors.
3. Musical instrument tuition - needn't be expensive / network and exchange time with a teacher if you have a skill they'd swap. Or pay half an hour fortnightly to keep it affordable. Encourage practice with praise not criticism for forgetting.
4. Enhance and expand on everything they are learning at school - magnetism, castles, Macbeth, water cycle... Show interest in everything and add to it

I went to private school and have children at both state primary and at a prep school.

Most private schools will have smaller classes and better facilities and you can’t do much about that.

The extra curricular activities can generally be replicated out of school and what I’ve found is that the prep is good at giving children a taste of lots of different activities but if they want to pursue them to any standard, they need to do it out of school anyway. So I’ve just been going to clubs schedule with my DC and realised that most of their main activities are out of school now anyway. They do do school clubs but it’s more for the social aspect.

Special needs is another that has some up a lot on the thread. My eldest is in private because he has special needs and I am more confident in the private school’s ability to cope with his needs than the local state school’s. And his special needs have involved meltdowns at school, running away from school grounds and some incidents of violence (not directed to other pupils) so probably the kind of behaviour that parents think they escape by moving to the private sector.

The point about networks isn’t, in my opinion, wholly true. My private school didn’t provide me with any useful contacts when I was looking for my first graduate job. But it did provide a lot of advice on different careers, non academic skills that would increase my employability and ensured that I knew how to write a good CV. My ten year old son’s summer holiday task this year is to write his CV. On the one hand it is ridiculous that a ten year old would need a CV but on the other, if he wants a job one day there is no harm in introducing the concept now.

Or you could teach your children to love and enjoy the things YOU like doing and live happily ever after.

1. Demonstrate to your children that you are a lifelong learner - take an evening class, join duolingo, get library books on a new topic
2. Consider if you might offer your school some kind of extra curricular activity that your children could also enjoy - debating, children's intro to philosophy, gardening, cooking, yoga...
3. Encourage your children to get involved in scouts etc - amazing experiences to work towards badges, volunteer if you can
4. A fully encouraged and supported child in a comprehensive school can easily exceed the levels of an unsupported child in a private school - parental influence is a major factor. Your child is lucky you have time and passion in help them along.

I'm sorry OP but it (for my family at least) comes down to the environment your child is absorbed within on a day to day basis. The smaller class sizes and crucially the friendship groups that celebrate learning as a positive thing. As well as the lack of disruption through poor behaviour.

Not all schools offer this.

Try to ensure your child has strong, good positive role models and friendship groups that celebrate aiming high on things they are good at and encourage it.

Move to an area with good schools is the best advice but often that means expensive property prices. But it could be worth downgrading accommodation size for the right school. sometimes renting puts you at an advantage when you can move around a little.

I’m not assuming it! I know it’s not true- I experienced the opposite! As for the idea that private schooling gives you impeccable manners, well, 🤣

You'd also need to instill confidence and social skills OP. The ability to turn on charm and charisma and speak confidently about a wide range of subjects. The innate knowledge of body language and posture, when and how to shake hands, how to speak and write professionally etc etc.

There was a series on this in The Times about 10 years ago where they interviewed various private school headteachers for tips. Might be worth looking up. The only thing I remember from it was that it advised learning an orchestral instrument, so that they not only get the benefits of a musical education, but also from playing with others in an ensemble, which is also something they can continue as a social benefit in later life, at uni, local orchestras, etc.

Of course you are right. However, it seems clear that if you put the same child through state school and private school, the private school experience is more likely to produce a child with confidence, self belief and higher aspirations as the norm. Self belief is probably what I meant, rather than entitlement.

I don’t think it’s necessarily about coming from money. DDs fees were not paid by us and there is no way we could have afforded private education at the time. The growth in her self belief and confidence definitely did not come from being well off.

But that would imply that privately educated people are universally charming, which most certainly isn't the case.

I will grant you that many have the confidence to talk about a wide range of subjects, including some that they clearly know nothing about, but charm? Charisma? Social skills? No, not in my experience.

It is an interesting question, really, and one that I should probably have considered further before posting my response above. I think there are certain elements of a typical private school education that I might seek to replicate. However, there are certain aspects of a typical private education that I would actively not want to replicate - which is, after all, why we decided not to send dd through the private system.

The idea that privately educated kids all have impeccable manners and great social skills seems to be based on people perhaps having very little experience of actually having met many privately educated people? The idea that they're all charming and charismatic is laughable...but perhaps that was a joke and intended ironically? It's hard to tell sometimes!

In my opinion you are paying for small class sizes, a wide range of subjects and activities. Activities which are cut from the national curriculum these days due to costs. Music, Drama, Public Speaking and languages from pre-prep. At my kids school, they all learnt an instrument and took proper grades exams from 7. Cultural capital, so museums, concerts and travel to interesting places if funds permit. All this gives kids a confidence to to be able to fit in to any social group. Access to a wide range of sport, so not just football and hockey, but golf, riding, sailing. It’s all about having choices.

I've been reading this thread with a degree of amazement that given the state of the country (which has been run into the ground by 12 years of public school rule), anyone would want to emulate a private education for their children.

I am also amazed that so many people seem to think that reading, music, the arts, sports etc are solely the preserve of the private school elite, rather than something which the plebs can enjoy too.

I agree that privately educated individuals often have an air of confidence that appears lacking in others, unfortunately I fear this stems from the fact that from an early age they have been educated in a bubble of privilege. It's a whole lot easier to have self-belief if you are apart from the rest of society and given all the tools and environment to develop your abilities.

I think the question should be how do we improve state education to give ALL children more confidence in their abilities and more access to activities and skills that are valuable and enjoyable. Depressingly I expect to be told that I'm just jealous because we can't afford private education. Along with those other MN chestnuts about how driving secondhand cars and shopping at Lidl are the ultimate sacrifices made to send DC to private schools. Oh, and of course, that private school parents simply prioritise education more than the rest of us.🤔

OK I should clarify, they are taught to have impeccable manners, which they may or may not choose to employ!

My (fairly extensive) experience of children at private schools is that they have been taught how to interact politely with adults and teachers. How they choose to behave on their own is completely moot, the point is they understand what is expected in semi-formal and formal interactions.

Erm, no, I am not at all convinced that they do understand what's expected. Yes, maybe the very superficial stuff like handshakes or how to write a formal letter, but many of the privately educated students who I worked with in my previous job seemed almost stunningly unaware of how their behaviour was perceived by others. And perhaps that's because they simply didn't give a toss, but the usual polite convention is to at least pretend that you care about not coming across like a total twat!!

Yes @Superspender I believe you can.

The single biggest factor in child attainment is parental engagement/involvement in a child's education. Private school is really just paying to outsource this.

What you need to do is to be constantly interested and to nurture whatever your child shows some interest in or talent for. You expose them to lots of things when young and then refine as they get older - cruicially led by them.

If you see an area where there is an issue you do not ignore or hope it will get better or leave it to school but find a way to work with your child to make improvements.

Talk a lot, read a lot (later just model reading), watch interesting programmes together, go to places that are enriching/interesting/beautiful/fun - it is really good fun and you as an adult also learn a lot.

I went private - it is a lot of money for a very weird environment. I couldn't do that to my kids.

I am also amazed that so many people seem to think that reading, music, the arts, sports etc are solely the preserve of the private school elite, rather than something which the plebs can enjoy too.

I'm not sure that this is the case. Actually, possibly it's the other way round. I think private school parents expect their fees in part to enable their children to have extensive exposure to arts, sports, music etc at school - whereas state school parents know that these things can be found outside of school if their school provision is lacking.
Anecdotal, but the private school parents I know don't send their DC to activities out of school whereas my state school educated school have benefited in taking part in a wider range of activities, because we weren't confined to just what school offered. As a parent, it's obviously easier just to send your child to school each day rather than source multiple activities and ferry your child about, so that's the flipside.

Spend lots of time with your children and nurture them. Parental engagement biggest contribution to educational outcomes and, more importantly, emotional well-being.

we haven't tried to emulate private school but encouraged hobbies, taken to different events/places like museums, music events etc. If as got older felt a subject was slipping topped up with private tutor. Always showed an interest in education by attending events at school and parents evenings and just encouraged them to have ambitions.

I am also amazed that so many people seem to think that reading, music, the arts, sports etc are solely the preserve of the private school elite, rather than something which the plebs can enjoy too.

Thing is, @PlattyJubes many state schools have cut things like music, drama, art, and a range of sports.

Fee paying schools aren’t required to stick to the philistine requirements of this current government, and its Tory predecessors, in which the national curriculum has been stripped of all but the lowest common denominator utilitarian subjects.

But I can also attest, from personal and physical experience (yes the bullying was physical) that “the plebs” with whom I was educated regarded reading books, art, going to museums etc with deep suspicion.

Excellent post from @carefullycourageous