Energy don’t pay or what else

[jetadore]

So the “don’t pay” movement seems to be gaining some traction but so does the “just shut up and pay” movement telling us to stop being so naive and how there are ‘much better ways’ to tackle the issue? What are these ‘better ways’ then? Place my faith in the leadership and benevolence of Liz or Rishi?

I remember people refusing to pay (and rioting) over the poll tax, you hear about protest movements in other countries, what about the yellow vests for fucks sake. Here we’re too scared to do anything in case it affects our precious credit scores, make excuses not to demonstrate because we allowed the government to take away our right to protest.

What am I allowed to do then? Wait for people to start going broke or dying, and then tut over the newspaper headlines? Wait for the next election so we can vote in the same bunch of bastards, or Starmer’s diet bastards? Research and publish my proposal for a coherent, long term energy policy since nobody in government can be bothered? Campaign for world peace? Come up with patronising explanations for how the crisis is due to a complex and unfortunate coincidence of geo-political factors and the prevailing economic doctrine which is actually much better than the alternative when you think about it what are you a socialist or something? How long should I wait and see if things magically get better? Is ofgem going to wait to announce the price cap? No, they’re doing it next month. Just enough time to get onto my bank.

I’m fortunate that I could probably afford the projected (can’t wait for the big reveal, so exciting) increase with a bit of belt tightening. But I’m inclined to cancel my payments all the same, if it would put the shits up them. I don’t want to be all “I’m alright jack” while others struggle, nor do I want to be intimidated by the threat of ccj’s and conservative claptrap, so that the Tories and their mates can sit there laughing at us and blathering on about how profit isn’t a crime whilst we all meekly wring our hands and wait in the cold for the invisible hand of the market to come to our aid.

Just feel like is there something I can practically do to make a difference, now, or am I actually powerless?

PS I know there was a thread on this recently there probably have been others since I didn’t find any when I searched though.

@PasTrop it's not just a case of using less there's also the standing charge price increases. A lot of people won't even be able to cover those alone or even the charges to have their meters disconnected altogether.

@PasTrop on a post where people are worried about not being able to heat their homes or eat and your solution is to go to your second home in France.

No wonder this country is fucked with attitudes to peoples situations like yours 🤦‍♀️ you must live in a fucking bubble if you think thats appropriate advice.

@54isanopendoor I can't think you would even have to tell your mortgage provider if you reduced the size of the bedrooms , it's your house .

The working from home allowance is just that an expense you claim to reduce your tax liability. If you dont pay tax it is worth nothing. If you are a basic rate taxpayer it is worth approx £60.00 per yr £120.00 if you pay higher rate PER YEAR.

You are living in a dream world if you think the government look after the sick and disabled, since January we have lost 600 pounds in benefits, bills are up by 300. a month

I am not well enough to work, but I dont have a choice as we cant wait for the PIP tribunal in a few years time

As to not paying the energy bills to help people, all this does is pass the cost down to those of us on key meters and no choice

Do you realise you don't get £6p/w back - you get tax relief in £6p/w. Your tax code is adjusted which then reduces the amount of tax you pay on that £6. So overall you pay about £1.20 less tax a week.

And do you think they will put the standing charge up??

I am in Ireland. Not much panic here YET!

Just had Smart electric meter installed and have a choice of three options. Just wondered what you think in comparison to UK. Is it similar, lower or higher? The tariff does not include the standing charge and is a point in time rate I suppose, so it more than likely will increase as Winter approaches.

1. Standard Rate 29.5c per kw.
2. Home + Free day. 32.5c per kw. I can choose one weekend day and electricity is free from 8am to 11pm. I can do all the washing, use the immersion for hot water, and batch cook, and anything else I can think of on that day!
3. Home + night rate.

Day: 08.00 - 23.00 31.60c per kWh Night: 23.00 - 08.00 15.60c per kWh Night Boost: 02.00 - 04.00 9.16c per kWh

There is a standing charge, a green levy and VAT also. But that applies to anyone's bill no matter what plan they choose.

It's not just a matter of using less gas and electricity. Energy costs are built into everything so the cost of everything we increase - goods, food etc. So you'll have less money after paying energy bills and everything will cost more. The government needs to make energy affordable or the economy will tank.

GETOFF says “You are not compelled to consume any amount of electricity or gas. At worst you arguably have to pay the standing charge, anything above that is optional.”
Whaaat! Energy to heat your home , cook your food, wash your clothes is not a choice, it’s not optional It’s a basic necessity!!!!
I don’t understand how you think anyone can opt out of using energy 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️
Please explain
Question… If water companies put their costs up should we opt out of using water then ???

Water is arguably different. You would die quickly without it.
Water companies can’t legally cut you off either.

I think PasTrop is Liz Truss in disguise. FFS we're not talking about nice to haves like Sky or a foreign holiday. We're talking about a basic necessity.

I'd rather put an extra jumper on than consider sex work tbh but each to their own.

And if having £400 sitting on credit prices such a financial problem for some (and I know it might) where are they going to find the extra money for fuel when they need it in a few months.

Its not that it causes me a problem, I’m very fortunate that I’m financially ok so far, but if that continues over the next three months until our energy use does go up they’ll be holding near enough £1,000 of my money and the current £400 per month DD will cover my winter usage. Charging me a monthly amount all year round on the basis of winter usage isn’t ok.

They haven’t changed my tariff to a pay per usage one yet, we’re still negotiating the direct debit amount. I have no objection to paying energy bills, I do object to them taking money from me that will sit in their account rather than mine. The whole point of having a smart meter is to monitor my energy costs and adjust usage/budget accordingly - that doesn’t work if they set a DD at twice the amount just because they can.

I didn’t realise you can change the direct debit amount on the website though - they haven’t told me that in my conversations with them, so I’ll set up an online account and have a look.

I'd rather put an extra jumper on than consider sex work tbh but each to their own.

An extra jumper won’t help cook your tea or heat your water.

Opposition to nuclear has fuck all to do with a "green agenda". Many environmentalists support nuclear as an energy source due to its low emissions and relative sustainability. Others oppose it due to concerns about how the waste would be handled, which is a perfectly valid concern especially when you look at how poorly/unsafely water/oil/gas industries have been run.

The main opposition to nuclear has always been a) a reluctance of our governments to invest in infrastructure, b)NIMBYs, and c) the general populations unfounded belief that nuclear power plants are ticking time bombs just waiting to go into meltdown at the slightest issue.

However it's irrelevant anyway as we can't just magic up a fleet of new nuclear power stations tomorrow (or even within the next decade). This energy crisis is down to our government's failure to invest in energy infrastructure and security and the public who kept putting them in power.

Thing is though typically the way DDs are set is you over pay in summer and underpay in winter with the balance built up. Cutting the DD in summer leaves you exposed massively in the winter, plus companies are trying to balance additional costs that will be Incured due to rising cap by putting up DDs. now. Without sitting down and checking your usage your KWH price and average consumption at each point in the past few years just cutting your DD could spectacularly backfire when you get handed a whopper of a bill.

@Scepticalwotsits I’ve already checked my year round usage, and the current DD reflects the cost of our monthly winter usage so we’re paying the same amount in summer as we do in winter, when our DD in winter covers the cost of our usage in winter.

Basically for 7/8 months in summer they charge us £400/month when we actually use around £180 on average per month. In winter they charge £400/month which looking at our predicted usage and tariff is about right assuming we don’t lower our usage (which we will). 7/8 months at a £200 over pay per month isn’t an insignificant amount of money to sit in someone else’s account given we’re not predicted to be underpaying in winter.

The government could set up a national company which provided power at cost of production rates and they could reopen some closed North Sea sites to increase supply. The government could cap prices at sustainable levels - we are paying well above the odds and there is no justification for standing charges rising. You're naive if you think companies do anything other than charge what they can get away with - the government's role is to step in when the market is out of control

Good god! This is painful to read.

The companies aren’t ‘charging what they can get away with’ that’s the point of the cap. Do you get that??

Without the cap, it would be so much more.
You realise energy companies (not wholesalers, companies) went bust because they didn’t hedge properly and it became unaffordable right?

Where is the government to get this power from? Who will they get it from
(Even if they set up a company). You think a wholesaler is going to say ‘ for you sir. Special price’ Or are they going to sell it to the government at the rates as everyone else.

Are you aware that this is a wholesaler problem, not so much as as energy supplier problem?

Please do some research.

You can’t just open a company to sell a resource more cheaply when there is a supply problem. And even if they could, do you really think it would be that simple.

The number of people who seem to have zero understanding of basic economics and the structure of the energy supply industry but seem to think they know how to easily solve the problem is unbelievable. All over social media too. ‘Just nationalise the companies’. Which companies? How? What difference would that make?

This energy crisis is down to our government's failure to invest in energy infrastructure and security and the public who kept putting them in power

This! Absolutely this. There is no quick fix here people. None. We are screwed tbh. Successions of Tory governments have fucked it for everyone. And even if you’re a true blue voter who has in other ways benefitted, you’re getting screwed like so many others now. They haven’t planned because they didn’t care. The war and Covid haven’t helped.

The smartest thing you can do is drastically try to reduce your usage where you can so you pay less. And if you are using more than you can afford, even doing this; using the bare minimum, then go to your energy company and show/tell them and see what they can do. Don’t refuse to pay for what you’re using. There is no way out of that at all.

I know. And it’s very frustrating to read too, because whilst it doesn’t help us in the moment, it’s important people get exactly why this is happening.

Germany has been affected way more than us. Poland, the NL…it’s a Pan European (at the very least) problem which will start to become a global problem.

If anyone is interested read @ ELPinchbeck on Twitter.

You will get full explanation here on what can be done now (it’s not what you think) and an explanation of what has happened and why.

Way better information than all these SJWs on Twitter who haven’t a clue and simply have an axe to grind with the Tories (don’t we all…)

I cancelled my direct debit but I'm not going to stop paying, Eon contacted me to ask why I cancelled and said that I need to set up another DD but I refused, this was about 4 months ago when my fixed term ended. I was told that the DD is more that we use because it's to prevent us getting into debt in the winter, I said I'm perfectly capable of managing my own finances and would prefer savings to be in my account, not theirs.

I always pay on the day I receive the bill. This month was £114 for gas/electric, my DD would have been £246 per month! I know it's going up again soon so I am putting extra in the bills account in preparation.