Energy don’t pay or what else

[jetadore]

So the “don’t pay” movement seems to be gaining some traction but so does the “just shut up and pay” movement telling us to stop being so naive and how there are ‘much better ways’ to tackle the issue? What are these ‘better ways’ then? Place my faith in the leadership and benevolence of Liz or Rishi?

I remember people refusing to pay (and rioting) over the poll tax, you hear about protest movements in other countries, what about the yellow vests for fucks sake. Here we’re too scared to do anything in case it affects our precious credit scores, make excuses not to demonstrate because we allowed the government to take away our right to protest.

What am I allowed to do then? Wait for people to start going broke or dying, and then tut over the newspaper headlines? Wait for the next election so we can vote in the same bunch of bastards, or Starmer’s diet bastards? Research and publish my proposal for a coherent, long term energy policy since nobody in government can be bothered? Campaign for world peace? Come up with patronising explanations for how the crisis is due to a complex and unfortunate coincidence of geo-political factors and the prevailing economic doctrine which is actually much better than the alternative when you think about it what are you a socialist or something? How long should I wait and see if things magically get better? Is ofgem going to wait to announce the price cap? No, they’re doing it next month. Just enough time to get onto my bank.

I’m fortunate that I could probably afford the projected (can’t wait for the big reveal, so exciting) increase with a bit of belt tightening. But I’m inclined to cancel my payments all the same, if it would put the shits up them. I don’t want to be all “I’m alright jack” while others struggle, nor do I want to be intimidated by the threat of ccj’s and conservative claptrap, so that the Tories and their mates can sit there laughing at us and blathering on about how profit isn’t a crime whilst we all meekly wring our hands and wait in the cold for the invisible hand of the market to come to our aid.

Just feel like is there something I can practically do to make a difference, now, or am I actually powerless?

PS I know there was a thread on this recently there probably have been others since I didn’t find any when I searched though.

Energy suppliers (I think that’s what you mean) will go bust.

People not paying doesn’t increase supply.

Russia is now burning gas they can’t sell.

How is you (or me) not paying what is available going to help this.

And it’s not households only.
Hospitals, schools, processing plants (medicines, foods) etc that are, and will comtinue to suffer.

All this information is fairly easy to find btw. Listen not to OP
who thinks it’s all about gas, and the UK only and that this vacuum of known entities (and greedy fat tories) is the root cause.

If only.

So why are the standing charges due to increase again? The standing charge does not have anything to do with supply or demand?

Suppliers are making a loss on the wholesale purchase price. They aren’t making money on they sell to us, that we use:

It’s all out there to read about if anyone is interested.

The price rise is unstainable for too many people, in this day and age, how can we not afford basic necessities? Say the average wage in UK is 30k, and a quarter of that income will be required to pay for energy. How are people going to pay thier rent/mortgage? Food, water, council tax, car costs etc etc and don't forget that 30k gets taxed and you have to pay NI too...

The way the price cap works is it calculates a maximum price for an "average user" for the use and standing charge combined and when giving the cap a suggested unit and standard charge is shown for the calculation.

The suppliers can set the prices as they wish, increasing and decreasing the gas, electric and standing charge to whatever they like, as long as the amount soft the "average" do not exceed the cap.

The standing charge can be increased to reduce unit costs and vice versa. The overall increase (in the current climate where the variable price cap is actually better than fixed rates) will still be in line with the 80%.

Some companies choose to have a lower unit cost but make this up with a higher standing charge and vice versa.

At the moment the wholesale prices are so high the cap can mean suppliers often selling each energy unit at a lower price than the wholesale cost. The companies know that due to the high cost people will reduce usage, so will be offsetting some of the impact of the wholesale gas prices, by adjusting the standing charge instead.

this is staged and people are showing how weak and trained they are

Couldn't agree with this more. They will push us to see how far they can go and how much we will put up with. I have never been one for protests or would ever condone riots but history tells me it's the only thing that works. The Scottish people protested for a year against the poll tax and got nowhere.....riots down south got the job done.

It has forced many to wake up to the great reset.
People are not laughing, pointing fingers and calling out names. It has much reduced.
It is directly affecting themselves.

Quite

Actually there will be some reasons.

But "they" have people over a barrel so to speak.

Standing charges should be dropped
I'm not holding my breath though

Standing charge should stay, it costs to run a net work to your house.
But what i'd like to see is encouragement to cut use.

Say first 1000 units at x and price increases as you use more.

After all, why should Sunak get help with heating his swimming pool? or my neighbour with his Sauna and pool too?

That will just push the cost of running the network into the unit cost of the energy. Suppliers who are already being forced to sell at a loss are not just going absorb the cost of running the network.

The much quoted £3549 cap for a typical user ONLY applies to monthly direct debit customers.

The cap for pre-payment meters is £3608, and the cap for other payment methods (such as paying quarterly on receipt of bill) is £3764.

If you cancel your direct debit you will immediately increase your prices by 6% ie. £215/year for an average user.

No me neither. I think they’ll go up even more because they know people aren’t going to be able to use energy.

So if you earn 1500 a month and are currently spending every last penny of that on rent/mortgage and food and bills how are you supposed to suddenly find an extra £300? It just isn't possible for some people. But I guess it's that "I'm alright Jack" attitude that has got us where we are today. Bloody tories!

Sorry - I was meaning to reply to someone above who said that we are responsible for our own families.

Some people will literally be working all hours that god sends and still won't be able to pay for it.

Completely agree.

This.

Finally a sensible suggestion!

This ⬆️⬆️⬆️

All the people saying that the OP should just stop moaning and use less energy or get a second job/lodger, you've completely missed their point. They said that they can afford the increase. They are asking what we, as a nation of consumers, can do to stop this price hike. They (and others commenting) have pointed out that millions of families cannot afford the price hike - children will go without food due to it; some elderly people will get hypothermia and die due to it. It's not trivial and it's not "all about me". And although Russia has something to do with price increases, energy companies (and bosses) are making massive, record profits (and bonuses), so something has clearly gone wrong in this system. £400 government hand-outs, at this stage, are like putting a plaster on a gaping wound.

A bit of a tangent but just to say that the £6 per week WFH allowance is a tax relief amount, not a payment of £6 per week. If, for example, you pay tax at 20%, the allowance will mean that you pay £1.20 (ie 20% of £6) less tax per week.

What about the record profits that the energy companies are now making??