Energy don’t pay or what else

[jetadore]

So the “don’t pay” movement seems to be gaining some traction but so does the “just shut up and pay” movement telling us to stop being so naive and how there are ‘much better ways’ to tackle the issue? What are these ‘better ways’ then? Place my faith in the leadership and benevolence of Liz or Rishi?

I remember people refusing to pay (and rioting) over the poll tax, you hear about protest movements in other countries, what about the yellow vests for fucks sake. Here we’re too scared to do anything in case it affects our precious credit scores, make excuses not to demonstrate because we allowed the government to take away our right to protest.

What am I allowed to do then? Wait for people to start going broke or dying, and then tut over the newspaper headlines? Wait for the next election so we can vote in the same bunch of bastards, or Starmer’s diet bastards? Research and publish my proposal for a coherent, long term energy policy since nobody in government can be bothered? Campaign for world peace? Come up with patronising explanations for how the crisis is due to a complex and unfortunate coincidence of geo-political factors and the prevailing economic doctrine which is actually much better than the alternative when you think about it what are you a socialist or something? How long should I wait and see if things magically get better? Is ofgem going to wait to announce the price cap? No, they’re doing it next month. Just enough time to get onto my bank.

I’m fortunate that I could probably afford the projected (can’t wait for the big reveal, so exciting) increase with a bit of belt tightening. But I’m inclined to cancel my payments all the same, if it would put the shits up them. I don’t want to be all “I’m alright jack” while others struggle, nor do I want to be intimidated by the threat of ccj’s and conservative claptrap, so that the Tories and their mates can sit there laughing at us and blathering on about how profit isn’t a crime whilst we all meekly wring our hands and wait in the cold for the invisible hand of the market to come to our aid.

Just feel like is there something I can practically do to make a difference, now, or am I actually powerless?

PS I know there was a thread on this recently there probably have been others since I didn’t find any when I searched though.

You won't get cut off if you don't pay. Regardless of season, the energy company can and will apply for a warrant to enter your home and install a PAYG meter though.

I do agree with not paying by DD though. You're effectively paying an estimated bill in advance. You won't be getting any overpayments back either - the money will rest in THEIR account (not yours) and eventually be credited to your final bill should you move or switch supplier.

There are no big ptofits in the actual retail of gas and electricity. The big profits are being made on the wholesale market by the producers so the only way any government can con to the price is by the country being energy self sufficient which we are years away from being. That means if the government set up its own nationalised energy company they would still have to buy that energy on the wholesale open market and after the fisco of the buying of the PPE I would hate to see how they could cock that up. The wholesale sellers are not going to sell it to them any cheaper than the commercial buyers can buy it at so it would still be massively expensive.

The North Sea after 50years of use is mostly oil left and it isn’t even oil that we can refine so 80% of it gets sold offshore. We could massively invest in North Sea oil shale gas but even if that happened it would need billons of investment and years before we get any return so wouldn’t help now.

We have already lost around 30 energy retails as they didn’t allow for the masssive increase in wholesale costs and went bust so we now pay increased standing charges to cover the monies lost when they went bust as everyone with a credit balance had to retain that credit balance so that now needs repaying. If more energy companies go bust then we will be paying even more.

the money will rest in THEIR account (not yours) and eventually be credited to your final bill should you move or switch supplier.

but they are not allowed to make a profit of credit balances and some energy firms pay interest on credit balances. I am with ova and balances over your minimum payment are paid between 3 and 5% interest depending on the length you have been with them.

plus you have the fact that you get a better rate paying by direct debit which is usually around 5% lower than other tariffs.

Can anyone come plain how switching to a more expensive method of payment is going to help people whose bills are increasing.

By opting to move from direct debit to pay on receipt of bill or pre pay meters, you are choosing to have a higher unit cost, as a protest to the prices going up.

The direct debit spreads the payment and every 6-12 months (depending on company) any credit that is built up can be refunded. Yes you may pay slightly more in some months than you use, and maybe you will need to get a refund sometimes, but overall by switching from direct debit you are choosing to have higher bills.

High energy costs likely to go on for years or longer I would have thought.

Structural issues been a long time in the making.
Some people been warning for decades.

Now chickens have come home to roost.
Or run out of road for the can kicking.
You choose.

Well yes. Same principle. Cut off from normal supply so you have to pay in advance.
They don’t remove you from the grid no, but if you’ve no money, the impact on you is the same.

Then you will be taken to court to pay and end up with costs and a fine.

They are not expected to stay high no. This pricing information is out there months and months before it hits Joe public. They have a good idea now what prices will be in April and have done for some time, but now the MSM are picking up in it, it all seems sudden. It’s not.

And It is expected to drop again, although to what and when, I don’t actually know.

They are not expected to stay high no. This pricing information is out there months and months before it hits Joe public. They have a good idea now what prices will be in April and have done for some time,

Well yes and no.
Part the reason 10 or whatever energy companies went bust was because they have been massively caught out.
There are people who will still be on old tariffs for a couple of years yet.

PAYG tariffs are high.
Better to get into trouble once younger cut back as much as you reasonably can, and then ask for a payment plan, rathe than not paying.

Monthly bills and PAYG are both more expensive than DD tariffs. Please listen when people tell you this.

Absolutely. The smaller providers didn’t hedge properly, and then the war happened. Bad business rather than lack of clarity. Of course fixed tariffs are great - provided you weren’t on a dozed tariff with a provider that went bust. New providers don’t have to honour that.

So if you fixed with 1) one of the big six before this all kicked off and 2) have years left to run (will be a very small minority of places) you’ll be less affected.

Those numbers are few and far between though.

Wont it be two out of 3 still on old tariffs?
[people fix for 3 years, and still two years left to run, if you see what I mean?]

Well, if with old 6

It’s quite simple. There is only so much energy exported. The current quantity is less than demand. Therefore, prices will rise until demand matches supply.

It’s how the Thunderdome international markets work. If you can’t pay, you go without and the winning bid gets the LNG or oil shipment.

Futures contracts for 2024 are already rising to meet what the spots have now as a price range. This issue is not vanishing any time soon without either new supply (doubtful another Russia is anywhere to be found) or demand destruction.

We’re going to have to use much, much less energy to keep prices down, else they will continue to rise until people literally cannot afford such contracts.

Actually my energy provider did pay back into my account some money this summer after my credit with them had gone over a certain level.
I pay by DD but had underused since Easter. Apparently they are no longer allowed to hold over a certain amount of our money in their accounts.
It was a payment of £96 returned to me, which truly flabbered my gastead !

Was with green energy they went bump got transferred to edf, they honoured price for 6 months then offered us a fixed rate which was cheaper than their standard fixed rate at the time have about 2 and a bit years of that left.

even back then the prices were creeping up and warnings prior to Russian invasion making it worse, so took the fixed rate and don’t regret it.

I am not sure that is true as during the winter I am a high energy user so have been paying any spare cash I have at the end of each month into my energy account plus cutting back on what i am using now. My balance stand now at £1200 which on the new prices won’t even be 2 month bills.plus they just allowed me to up my direct debit again so no limit unless it is on a firm by firm decision .I am with ova on a variable direct debit.

Please don't follow the advice on social media not to pay your energy bills. Your energy company could decide to move you to a prepayment meter, and you would end up paying more for your energy than ever. Not a sensible move!

If you can't pay, the best thing to do is contact your energy company directly as they may be able to negotiate a payment plan or point you in the direction of support that you can access. Alternatively, seek specialist debt advice from one of the many charities that offer this.

@Getoff
They hysteria "what will you do if they put the bills up to 20K" is overdone. You are not compelled to consume any amount of electricity or gas. At worst you arguably have to pay the standing charge, anything above that is optional.

Hard to fathom that anyone genuinely believes this absolute fucking nonsense let alone would post about it but seems it’s been posted without any obvious signs of sarcasm.

How exactly is energy use optional, when it comes to cooking, bathing, laundry, lighting, ... This is Britain in 2022 ffs, let’s all sit stinking and unwashed in the dark, eating beans from a tin eh. What next? You are not compelled to drink any amount of water, stick a bucket outside when it rains, anything above that is optional.
Making profit off essential services is what should be fucking optional.

@Getoff
Speaks like a true wef person. Own nothing and be happy. Eat insects.
Know your place.

Aye, because it’s perfectly clear that you said what I suggested! Off you pop then.

Correct me if I am wrong.
But is not Put in wasting and birning gas on purpose?

And again correct me if I am wrong. But, even if war ended, would it not be in his best personal interest to carry on doing so? To keep the price high?

Paying what you can afford to your energy company will ensure no magistrate will grant an order to install a PAYG meter nor is there any advantage to the supplier to pursue you, the DD would stop and it will take years to recoup monies owed via a PAYG meter.

Plus where are all the installers to do this work? plus court time/bailiffs, unrealistic.

I never paid any Poll tax, just dug my heels in, the debt was written off, i don't know about my credit rating, i didn't need any credit!

Just keep paying as much as you can realistically manage, ultimately, if you pay your energy bill but then starve to death, no one wins.

You’re all ears? Try using your eyes my op was inviting suggestions for “better” ways, the “right” way, the “proper” “British” way to protest and effect a change (and fast). 10+ pages in no such suggestions have been made and people are instead, as I predicted, lining up to bleat about stealing, credit ratings, just wear a coat, the pointlessness of any attempt at dissent, the righteousness of private enterprise, and geopolitics, plus that one case taking it as an opportunity to brag about their second home in France. Meanwhile any examples of people currently or in impending difficulty studiously ignored (avert your eyes from the poor people children, back away slowly, don’t make eye contact, but don’t forget to get a good look down your nose, it’s the British way).

Sadly I missed/can’t find your doubtless fascinating explanation as to why don’t pay won’t work, can you repost it please?

So in the absence of any hint of a better option from the apathetic herdmind, I can now see no alternative but to subscribe to the don’t pay movement.

Here’s how I think it could work:

1. A significant number of people cancel their energy payments in October, compromised of those who genuinely can’t afford it plus those who probably can but won’t in solidarity. As others have pointed out, you can ask to be billed quarterly, you’re under no obligation to pay by dd anyway, despite energy companies constantly haranguing you to do so. So you’re not stealing anything. Unless eating a meal at a restaurant before paying the bill is stealing too.
2. After 3 months, you get your bill. Now don’t pay it. You get a month to pay anyway and you’ll hardly get a ccj and cut off the second it comes due, will they?
3. Now it’s Jan/Feb, inshallah some miracle has occurred and things are getting better, or there are increasing numbers of people on the bones of their arse. Media coverage, word of mouth, increasing crime rates, etc. can’t be ignored, leads to an awakening amongst people to actually get off their freezing arses and protest. Government takes notice.
4. Lack of cash flow due to increasing wholesale prices and increasing numbers of non-payers causes energy suppliers to shit pants and go cap in hand to government. Government really takes notice.
5. Government bails out energy companies. Hopefully this enrages previously bovine populace who have been fed “no handouts” mantra for months and shit gets real, or
6. government does the decent thing and helps out the low income people
7. Add into the mix perhaps Truss is screwing things right up and there’s an election brewing, break glass for big gesture popular with voters.
8. Everyone pays their bills! Low income people with help from the government, the ones who could afford it should have saved up the payments they didn’t make, or
9. If the government doesn’t act, give it another 3 months.

The more people do it the more chance it’ll work. The wildebeest could kill the lion if they all worked together you know.

As ever, got any better ideas let’s hear them, please god no more of the same tired excuses and “well, actually..”, thanks.

Well my plan is to.. not pay and sit here and wait for the sick and disabled to be 'well looked after'.

So far, the Warm Homes discount scheme looks like its being changed so I won't qualify, so the 150 quid the gummint will pay off my bill is negated by the 150 i wont get via warm homes this year. No better off there than I was last year or the year before then.

I need electricity for CPAP machines, to chill insulin, and gas to heat the house - i have autonomic dysfunction issues and don't warm up easily.

I guess my options are to get into serious debt, lose the house and go to prison - where I will then at least be fed and warm.

Or, die I suppose.

Prisons are gonna be mighty full of poor, sick and disabled people. I wonder how much that costs the government.