Energy don’t pay or what else

[jetadore]

So the “don’t pay” movement seems to be gaining some traction but so does the “just shut up and pay” movement telling us to stop being so naive and how there are ‘much better ways’ to tackle the issue? What are these ‘better ways’ then? Place my faith in the leadership and benevolence of Liz or Rishi?

I remember people refusing to pay (and rioting) over the poll tax, you hear about protest movements in other countries, what about the yellow vests for fucks sake. Here we’re too scared to do anything in case it affects our precious credit scores, make excuses not to demonstrate because we allowed the government to take away our right to protest.

What am I allowed to do then? Wait for people to start going broke or dying, and then tut over the newspaper headlines? Wait for the next election so we can vote in the same bunch of bastards, or Starmer’s diet bastards? Research and publish my proposal for a coherent, long term energy policy since nobody in government can be bothered? Campaign for world peace? Come up with patronising explanations for how the crisis is due to a complex and unfortunate coincidence of geo-political factors and the prevailing economic doctrine which is actually much better than the alternative when you think about it what are you a socialist or something? How long should I wait and see if things magically get better? Is ofgem going to wait to announce the price cap? No, they’re doing it next month. Just enough time to get onto my bank.

I’m fortunate that I could probably afford the projected (can’t wait for the big reveal, so exciting) increase with a bit of belt tightening. But I’m inclined to cancel my payments all the same, if it would put the shits up them. I don’t want to be all “I’m alright jack” while others struggle, nor do I want to be intimidated by the threat of ccj’s and conservative claptrap, so that the Tories and their mates can sit there laughing at us and blathering on about how profit isn’t a crime whilst we all meekly wring our hands and wait in the cold for the invisible hand of the market to come to our aid.

Just feel like is there something I can practically do to make a difference, now, or am I actually powerless?

PS I know there was a thread on this recently there probably have been others since I didn’t find any when I searched though.

Unfortunately I'm on a meter. Since 15th of July I have paid £220 and I need to top it up tomorrow

I wish i had a direct debit to cancel

So what is the solution? Soon they'll be having you pay all the money you earn. Robin Hood used to steal from the rich to give to the poor. But why were they poor? Because the government taxed them extortionately and threw them in prison if they couldn't pay. What's the limit here? In Singapore did you know that 1 in 4 people are millionaires, why is that? Because their government make much better decisions than ours do, allowing them to save and accumulate wealth for them and thier families. They are obviously not having an 'energy crisis' in Asia

No, you pay council tax which was the poll tax became.

Much of Europe is dependent on Russian gas. As a result of the Ukraine war there are shortages and Putin is switching off supplies. This means prices go up - significantly.

So why did the prices double last year before the war in Ukraine? Why aren't the government sorting out our country so we have our own supplies so we don't have to rely on other countries. Its all excuses

Solution to what? Energy has become expensive, you can use less of it or pay higher bills. What do you think the “problem” is?

The problem is the energy companies profits have quadrupled in the first 6 months of 2022 due to the increase. This is a developed country, we should all have access to basic necessities at a reasonable price and £7000 per year is not reasonable. Do you think it is?

I agree with the OP. We need mass collective action - the individualistic BS spouted by a few of the posters on this thread will get us nowhere; this affects everyone.

Why would it matter what I think is reasonable? These are international companies extracting oil and gas from the ground, and selling it for whatever they can. “Reasonable” doesn’t come into it. Buy it, don’t buy it, it’s really up to you what you choose to do.

If you aren’t happy with the cost get a word-burner and paraffin lamps, or move in with family, or just use less.

The problem is the energy companies profits have quadrupled in the first 6 months of 2022 due to the increase. This is a developed country, we should all have access to basic necessities at a reasonable price and £7000 per year is not reasonable. Do you think it is?

Exactly. We’re being taken for a ride and these fat cat bastards are laughing all the way to the bank.

Of course it doesn’t affect everyone. What “mass action” do you want here? If people in the UK won’t pay the going rate for gas there are plenty of people in other countries who will.

Yes, it’s annoying when things that were once cheap become expensive, but why should the state get involved?

There are a solution but it’s unpalatable for the government.

1 nationalise the North Sea gas fields, prioritise gas to uk at a reasonable rate, store some sell any excess if there is any at market price to none uk consumers. If we are having brexit it damn well use what time slither of benefits we could get from it.

yes BP and RDS will scream, offer them option one or option 2 sell to a set price or have periodic windfall taxes above a threshold and if the refuse option 2 then will go with option 1.

If you aren’t happy with the cost get a word-burner and paraffin lamps, or move in with family, or just use less.

Great suggestions! Except that wood burners are associated with significant health risks and are an environmental disaster; not everyone has family they can conveniently just move in with; and many people are already using the bare minimum. Any other pearls of wisdom?

Yes, it’s annoying when things that were once cheap become expensive, but why should the state get involved?

It may be “annoying” for you. For many it literally means not eating. Honestly, what planet do you live on?!

Not really. If that doesn’t work for you you’ve got two options, pay or accept being a bit cold.

Your post is a great example of your issue here though, you are asking other people to help with a situation that’s yours alone to solve.

If you can’t afford to heat your house this winter, why are you not the one coming up with answers?

Have you tried for a promotion at work, for example, or found a second job in the evenings or at weekends? Have you taken in a lodger, or reached out to a family in a similar situation to see about sharing one home and so halving your heating bills?

I know exactly how I’m going to get through this winter, and all the ones that follow, but that’s neither here nor there; how are you going to do it?

It's matters what you think is reasonable because you are a human being with a brain. If you can't see that this is beyond ridiculous, then I dread to think how many other people there are like you, willing to lie down. It's common sense! I assume you have some kind if income from somewhere? Would you be happy to pay 50% of that to an energy company because THEY tell you too?

The same one as you. Why do you think anyone other than you is responsible for housing and feeding your family?

Do you not understand how unreasonable that is?

Lie down? What are you talking about, and why would I need to pay 50% of my income on heating?

You do understand climate change, yes? You are able to understand why you need to stop using so much energy?

Can't you see it's going to get to a point where they'll charge you whatever they want. £20,000 per year? Is that OK?

Climate change is BS, its another bandwagon to support the rise in costs. Did you know the amount of carbon dioxide in the air actually increases when the weather is warmer. It is not the carbon dioxide in the air that makes the temperature increase. I don't know how you can gelieve humans are able to affect the climate. I'm sorry but you are a lost cause

*believe

Agreed, this is on the government. They run this country apparently.

@Scepticalwotsits Your post shows a gross lack of understanding of a.) the reserves and ease of extraction of oil/gas in the north sea and b.) Shell/BPs role in the north sea.

The north sea is a tiny part of shell and BPs business (they sold most fields off as they became more depleted and harder to work).

If BP/shell are subject to huge extra taxation (or nationalisation) they will simply de-list in London and move abroad.

In the 1970s when Heath was PM, he had the chairmen of BP/Shell in Downing street and pleaded with them to help the UK with cheaper energy - they were not able to do so and this was when, at least in BP's case, the Government OWNED a huge part of the company!

I’m sorry but you are wrapping two separate things together. Climate change isn’t a hoax or con, unless you are talking a con going across generations and hundreds of thousands of scientists including peer reviewed studies and empirical data.

the current prices are due to geopolitical situation, unrestrained capitalism and market forces. We buy oil and gas in a global market. Russia has cut gas to the Eu by 90% f what it had at this point last year. That means more demand for less supply hence prices going up an producers make the most of this and gauge.

Ountries which have either state owned producers, or have rules about supplying their cou try first and have ample storage are better placed as are majority nuclear powered countries (hence why France is doing better than Germany) The UK has none of these, poor storage resulting in us being at risk of any price e shocks. Energy security has been woefully lacking in the UK

This isn’t some con to move us to green tech, but poor decisions by multiple governments in regards to energy security. Blaming something else is the exact reason we ended up with brexit because the eu made all these laws that were enforced on us, and when unpopular blame big bad eu, even when the uk had ratified the legislation without raising issue or comment, nor had engaged in the legislative process.

So basically we are being held to ransom at the hands of a terrorist? It's the same thing isn't it? The energy companies are the terrorists and we are thier hostages?

The previous posted mentioned climate change, hence why I addressed it