Energy don’t pay or what else

[jetadore]

So the “don’t pay” movement seems to be gaining some traction but so does the “just shut up and pay” movement telling us to stop being so naive and how there are ‘much better ways’ to tackle the issue? What are these ‘better ways’ then? Place my faith in the leadership and benevolence of Liz or Rishi?

I remember people refusing to pay (and rioting) over the poll tax, you hear about protest movements in other countries, what about the yellow vests for fucks sake. Here we’re too scared to do anything in case it affects our precious credit scores, make excuses not to demonstrate because we allowed the government to take away our right to protest.

What am I allowed to do then? Wait for people to start going broke or dying, and then tut over the newspaper headlines? Wait for the next election so we can vote in the same bunch of bastards, or Starmer’s diet bastards? Research and publish my proposal for a coherent, long term energy policy since nobody in government can be bothered? Campaign for world peace? Come up with patronising explanations for how the crisis is due to a complex and unfortunate coincidence of geo-political factors and the prevailing economic doctrine which is actually much better than the alternative when you think about it what are you a socialist or something? How long should I wait and see if things magically get better? Is ofgem going to wait to announce the price cap? No, they’re doing it next month. Just enough time to get onto my bank.

I’m fortunate that I could probably afford the projected (can’t wait for the big reveal, so exciting) increase with a bit of belt tightening. But I’m inclined to cancel my payments all the same, if it would put the shits up them. I don’t want to be all “I’m alright jack” while others struggle, nor do I want to be intimidated by the threat of ccj’s and conservative claptrap, so that the Tories and their mates can sit there laughing at us and blathering on about how profit isn’t a crime whilst we all meekly wring our hands and wait in the cold for the invisible hand of the market to come to our aid.

Just feel like is there something I can practically do to make a difference, now, or am I actually powerless?

PS I know there was a thread on this recently there probably have been others since I didn’t find any when I searched though.

Yep unfortunately the green lobby here and abroad hates nuclear. Yes it’s not great but it’s better than burning fossil fuels. Green lobby in Germany stoped new reactors being built and caused them to be wedded to Russian gas and now are having to burn more coal. Spectacularly backfired that.

people seem to see things in black and white and not in step change compromise. Yes only doing a small amount isn’t as good as doing a large amount but, so all steps may get you there when one large step isn’t palatable or possible

Remove your meter and use not gas at all (you will have to remove it btw as you will pay the standing charge otherwise)

That’ll learn ‘em

*You’ll get a ccj, a big fine and a higher tarried ultimately.

You can’t use things and not pay for them.*

This sums it up. If people really want to end up with a shit credit rating, go ahead. Don't encourage others to do so or complain when people won't.

if France could work out a way to not have an energy crisis

There is clearly an energy crisis for some sectors in France:

Le Monde
Energy crisis: French businesses brace themselves for the worst.

www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2022/07/19/energy-crisis-french-businesses-brace-themselves-for-the-worst_5990714_19.html

Rural French communes forced to cut services due to rising energy bills.

www.thelocal.fr/20220404/rural-french-communes-forced-to-cut-services-due-to-rising-energy-bills/

*For people who need help, the ones you are trying to help so you say, cancelling their DD is not going to work.

You cancelling your DD isn’t going to work.

My DD went from £140 per month to £400 per month, my smart meter showed we were actually using around £150 per month plus £30 standing charge. They currently have £380 in credit on our account. Tried speaking to the supplier about our account to no avail, said they had worked figures out based on previous usage.

I did stop the DD to force them to have another look - and to actually have a conversation about it. They immediately cut the DD to £300 and it looks like it’ll actually land somewhere around £250 to balance out summer and winter use. Then we’ll have to renegotiate again come October.

I don’t think nonpayment is effective in the long term, but it can prompt them to actually engage in a discussion about reasonable payments.

I’m not comfortable with the government subsiding the share holders and CEO’s of essential services.

I completely agree with you op but people are just too wet in this country to do anything that might carries a risk or shock horror - Illegal!! keels over and dies
@Quincythequince

You’ll get a ccj, a big fine and a higher tarried ultimately.

You can’t use things and not pay for them.

Do you understand that???

One time before all this started, I rang up my old supplier and told them I was moving and going with a different supplier. They closed the account. For 18 months I carried on living in my house not paying anything, didn't get cut off, no bills, no ccjs, no prepayment meters installed, no contact from anyone (other than a massive refund in error from old supplier of everything I'd ever paid them previously about a month after they'd closed the account) eventually I got paranoid they'd catch up with me so I phoned a different supplier and told them I'd just moved in a week ago. 🤣🤣🤣No one caught on. Should have kept stum.

With a smart meter, that’s fair enough.

You can document your usage. But it will go up in the winter (assuming you don’t beat your house in the summer months) and also because the price caps will go up.

Like I said, some people prefer to pay evenly to manage their money better rather than pay variable amounts each month if they’re on a budget.

And if having £400 sitting on credit prices such a financial problem for some (and I know it might) where are they going to find the extra money for fuel when they need it in a few months.

You are lucky your supplier didn’t change your tariff (or did they? Have you checked).

Shell gives customers control over their DD so you can vary it by month if you want to. Not all of them are as generous and this is presumably because they know people won’t be able to pay at some point.

Not paying anything and not engaging because you want to protest, is very different to your scenario.

Lucky you, although you are thief - you realise that yea?

Bur you’re assuming they won’t backbill (it happens) and of course your unpaid energy used doesn’t dent their profits, other consumers just end up paying.

Bravo to you 🙄

One time before all this started, I rang up my old supplier and told them I was moving and going with a different supplier

And I highly doubt this version of events to be honest, although maybe during Covid you got away with it.

They hysteria "what will you do if they put the bills up to 20K" is overdone. You are not compelled to consume any amount of electricity or gas. At worst you arguably have to pay the standing charge, anything above that is optional.

If a pint of milk was £50, I would or more likely would not buy it, what I would not do is steal it.

This is nothing like the poll tax, which was just one of many ways of collecting money for the govenment, and the payment of which did not entitle you to anything specific in return. This is a payment for goods you actually consume, and if you don't pay your bill, then someone else is going to have to pay it for you.

There are three options for dealing with increased bills

1. You pay for what you use
2. Other people pay for what you use
3. You use less

Pick one, there are no other possibilities.

(To clarify option 2, if the government pays that means taxpayers pay. If the money is taken from corporations then either their shareholders or customers pay, depending on the exact details. People like to nominate "government" or "big companies" as the source of an infinite pool of funds to solve any problem, without acknowledging that any money taken from either will ultimately come out of pockets of other individuals.)

I do support option 2 in one version: I would be fine with the government paying subsidies of any size deemed appropriate to household where someone is claiming Universal Credit.

This is the only version of "other people pay" that I think is acceptable. I don't approve of the £66 a month subsidy for everyone government has already promised.

I'm going to pay £300 per month and the rest will just have to accrue as debt. Once prices go down or divine intervention steps in, I'll start paying off the debt.

I'm a single mum, no family and an ex that doesn't pay a penny. I work full time and get UC top up. I just can't afford £600 per month, there's literally no where I can squeeze it from.

If my plan doesn't work and they push me onto prepayment meters that I can't afford to top up, then I guess I'll have to look at sex work ☹️ I can't really see another way out at this point.

There is a shortage of gas, that means consumption has to be lower, the mechanism for achieving that is to put up the price until consumption falls to a level that matches the actual amount of gas that is available. It is literally impossible for everyone to consume the same amount of gas this winter as they did in previous years, there is no magic wand the government can wave to make that happen. If they print more more money in order to give more subsidies, that won't cause extra gas to appear in the pipes, it will just cause the value of money to go down.

Truss has today said her current plan for the energy crisis is to 'cut taxes and cut green energy tarriffs'.

Yup, that'll definitely help the people who need it most.

How about we build our on nuclear power stations instead of relying on other countries and being to held to ransom? The government won't do that though as it goes against the green agenda. What is the point of the government?

Hinckley!

Bur the protests here are uninformed and woke.

Maybe now people are dying all these anti-nuke, ignorant, crusties can reflect on the partial negative impact of their actions.

And it’s owned by the French (EDF)

They are doing it in Suffolk but it’s greens and others who are protesting, which is difficult as we need it for many reasons

OP I too am in your position and don’t know what to do until the next election to help. Campaign, yes but otherwise? All I can think of - and this seems frivolous, but its genuinely not meant to be - is to support local businesses - food shops, cafes, pubs etc as much as I can - and contribute to local appeals and food bank etc.

Totally agree with you OP.

We are a nation of fraidy cats and any peep of suggesting you’d actually do something of significance, such as refuse to pay, gets you insulted and the scaremongers tell you that evil men will be at your house to scare you.

The reality is that a long way down the line you may have to get a prepayment meter installed, if they get to the point of obtaining a court order to enter your property, and your credit score affected. But so what - I don’t need a good credit score. I have a mortgage and an emergency credit card, I won’t need credit any time soon and I know many people in the same situation. So many of us are in a very good position to stand up against this. But won’t.

When I was younger I protested over everything. I’d protest again but no one seems to want to - again they are all to frightened.

It sounds harsh but if we don’t take proper action, if we just sit here refusing to even cancel our direct debits in case the bogey man calls (he won’t) then we really only have ourselves to blame. We aren’t pawns in a game, this isn’t North Korea where any kind of resistance spells curtains, we have the freedom to object and most people won’t.

@medianewbie Please take a look at this link, there is no need to have no loft insulation.
It is available for free in some cases.
Check the link.
www.which.co.uk/reviews/home-grants/article/home-grants/free-loft-insulation-and-free-boilers-from-energy-suppliers-a85i81F3XKdd

If it is true it is not the great reset, it's the great robbery! I thought it was bollocks myself, but I am starting to think some form of it might be true. We are being royally screwed here by some very wealthy people and if you look at what is going on globally it is very telling.

I am sadly starting to lose the small amount of trust for our world leaders that I had, and do think that civil unrest might be the only answer as they simply do not care. This is a crisis they will make money from and we need to 'reset' their attitudes and way of life, not ours. Its fucking horrible though and I hate that it has come to this. It feels like all the progress we have made over the last 40 years is being trampled on by a privileged minority.

@saleorbouy thank you. x

Unfortunately I am with Scottish Gas & they don't offer any help.
My local council doesn't have grants.
The kids bedrooms are up in the attic rooms which would have to be reduced in size to put insulation in I think? I don't know if my mortgage co would allow me to reduce the number of bedrooms (maybe they'd not care?). I cant move anywhere more suitable as I cant afford to (I am on an old interest only mortgage as I couldn't afford local rents or a repayment mortgage)

I wonder if all the extra admin work, issuing solicitor's letters and taking people to court for unpaid bills, will increase costs for the rest of us who decide against risking our credit rating?