Sibling fallout - who is being unreasonable

[wasabipeas]

I’m trying to keep this neutral because I’ve lost perspective on this situation so please be gentle…

3 siblings - A, B and C. All married with DCs

A is very well off, big house, lots of holidays, skiing etc
B is doing ok, has a holiday every year but camping/Eurocamp or self catering sort of things
C has the least money of all of them, due to working in a low-paying industry and wouldn’t ordinarily take DCs ‘away’ on holiday but would do day trips locally etc

For the last few years, family A has offered to take family C on holiday. Not joining their usual long haul but Centreparcs or a week in a cottage which Family A pays for

A and C have returned from a holiday recently, and B asked C how it was.
C said it was great, B said, half jokingly ‘I look forward to it being our turn for the free FamilyA holiday scheme one day’

C tells A what was said, A contacts C and says that it’s not about free holidays so much as giving kids who wouldn’t otherwise have a holiday something, where as B’s kids get a holiday every year, so this isn’t something that B is going to come to as long as they are able to give their kids a holiday

A is cross and B being entitled, B is cross at their kids being excluded, C is stuck in the middle of it

Who IBU?

if it makes any difference, A and C are the same gender

C is a shit stirrer. A should have said as much whatever their thoughts as otherwise it's always 2 against 3 which is not nice.
B should just detach form A and C because it is hard to afford holidays if you're not reality wealthy. I couldn't get from the OP if C's freebie holiday was better than what B enjoys either.
All sounds horrendously dramatic tbh.

Pretty much my thinking. Must be tough for B to be left out every year.

Uncomfortable family dynamics here. All favouritism (parents to B, A to C) and noone can own up to the truth on anything.

B is being unreasonable. Seems like she's happy with C cannot go on holiday, bug feels entitled to another holiday. Not very nice at all.

Can't a b and c all go together but a pays for c and b pays for b? Then no children miss out and fun is had all round.

either that or world war 3 breaks out

😅👍

B probably can't afford it either, which is why they go camping.

And everyone had a lovely time, especially the kids, so we thought we would try and do it again, especially knowing the kids wouldn’t have another holiday otherwise

And the more you post, the more it looks like bullying and exclusion of B. In these situations often one family member is given the role of “difficult.” Looks like that’s B.

I can see how she might feel excluded and that this is turned into her “being tricky.” Why don’t you just admit you don’t like your sister in law? Rather than playing Lady Bountiful?

B is being ridiculous.

It’s not even about the money, IMO. I would happily spend a week with my brother, because we get on and he’s a relaxed and easy guest and there would be no conflict. I would not happily spend a week with my sister because, much as I love her and much as I see her good points, she can also be an absolute bloody nightmare and is an intense, demanding drama queen. You’re not obliged to spend time with someone just because they happen to be a sibling, and if we’re going to factor in the money, clearly B is capable of paying for a holiday of their own while C is not.

No. You were shit stirring. Someone cab be mad and then calm down and take it no further. You had no need to shit stir like that.

Why the hell would anyone do that? Do you think she should be a complete martyr?

And the more you post, the more it looks like bullying and exclusion of B. In these situations often one family member is given the role of “difficult.” Looks like that’s B.

You cannot possibly know that, and it’s absurd to suggest that anyone who is described as ‘difficult’ is automatically the victim. It’s not remotely implausible that B is simply a bit of a twat.

I find it a bit weird that grown adults feel they are entitled to have exactly the same relationship with a sibling as another sibling does. They’re bloody grown-ups. They don’t have to be mates and be blind to one another’s faults just because they share some DNA.

I think it would be mad to change something you're enjoying for the sake of someone else's conception of fairness, which actually sounds a lot more like entitlement.

You don't have to treat your siblings equally, especially if one of them has a tendency to be mardy.

Knowing both their siblings as they do, C absolutely should not have relayed the conversation they had with B back to A.

A and B are presumably adults able to manage their own relationship, without C stirring the pot (even if unintentionally).

YANBU, you can have a holiday with whoever you want and this seems to work well. However B is also NBU to feel left out; people don’t tend to have insight into not being great company and given it’s become an annual thing it’s perhaps something they can’t feel they can ignore. Is there no way you could try again to go all together … I know you said you did with PIL but the dynamic may be different without parents? Esp if you, A and C have a plan to deal with B’s dominating of activities? Only you will know if that may work though, and if all kids are likely to get on or it may affect that? Otherwise I would say as given B&C spend time together, could time be made for A&B with/without families to do something else together to make what they can of that relationship?

Yeah I feel a bit sorry for B, out of everyone.
Basically A's kids go on several really good holidays, and one pretty nice one, which is also extra fun if they are with their cousins.
C's kids go on one pretty nice holiday with their cousins.
B's kids only go on a bog standard holiday, just with their parents, and hear all about the nice holidays all their cousins went on, together. Not fun.

Also there are a lot of variables that randoms on MN won't know that could affect the reasoning - do B & C work the same hours but B is just in a better paid job? Or is the reason B is just about doing ok and C is struggling is because C is only working part time? Or because B did a degree/works really long hours/in a really hard job that compensates accordingly? Does A really know everything about B and C's finances to KNOW that B is doing ok? Because if they earn more, they could be paying more tax, NI, SL repayments, union subs (necessary in a lot of jobs), pension etc, meaning their take home pay is barely more than C's. Could C take their kids on holiday if they cut back on other things/took opportunities to earn more?

But yes, really I think A is being unreasonable. It's never nice to be left out of things. Even if A took C's family twice every 3 years, and B's once that would be a bit fairer, but to have basically turned it into an annual tradition at this point that B is never invited to must sting.

I've seen similar dynamics before. B sounds like that pandered only daughter, youngest child.

She's trying to act like the next family matriarch, and is much closer to her DM than the boys (working part time means visiting more during the weekdays at a guess?)

She's probably both turn between wanting the generosity from A for herself and being annoyed that something has been arranged and she doesn't get a say in it.

If she really wanted a Center Parcs holiday or some such, she could skip a holiday one year and save up for the "better" holiday.

Just lay low for awhile and if the comments keep coming just repeat "but you take the kids on holiday every year already, how are you missing out?"

Agree with everything here. I can totally see why B feels left out, even if they spend time with C. Families are so complicated and I get that you would rather not go away with B so ... not sure where that leaves you ... bad feeling I guess! Or could you do an additional weekend away with everyone so that all the cousins could be together for that?

I would happily take the children if I were me in this situation. I love my nieces and nephews and would be happy to put them first and facilitate a holiday for them - enjoying a holiday with their cousins making lifelong memories.

Just shining a different perspective that’s all! I don’t think it’s that unreasonable to suggest this option.

have you ever actually spent a week with 9 children under the age of 13?

Yep!

It sounds just like A and C don’t like to holiday with B because B is a difficult person. Now no one can really say if this is justified or not - like maybe they just don’t like the same things or whatever. B is understandably upset at being left out (even if they also feel that big holidays with everyone are not fun).

Basically either you hurt B’s feelings (which many people can understand - as they are left out). Or you go on a big holiday that no one likes.

here are some other options to think about:

1. give money to C’s family so they holiday alone without A (so B doesn’t complain).
2. offer to take B’s kids on holiday/sleepover/activity without B (probably without C’s family so B won’t feel left out but you don’t have to deal with her awkwardness).

activities also depend on the ages of the kids in the family.

I think you are all being unreasonable.

I’ve not read every post, but I have read all the OP’s posts. OP, I think you are a bit defensive and also very sure that you are totally in the right, so I wonder why the post? I think you are being both reasonable and unreasonable. Perhaps a bit disingenuous if you really cannot see any reason why B might feel a bit left out, even if that was not your intention.

I understand saying “it’s only for C/s children” as your reasoning for doing this- and it is a kind gesture- but I wonder if it really is as simple as that? I wonder if this situation genuinely did start out as a nice thing to do for C’s children, so you went and you all enjoyed it, and as a result (not unreasonably) decided to continue going away together. Which is perfectly reasonable- but it is clear you made a very clear decision that this was definitely to be without B as you don’t want her family there. And at the end of the day, if your families don’t want to go on holiday with B and her family as you don’t get on/don’t like her much or whatever, then you are 100% entitled to do so. But at least be honest about it and not paint this all as complete altruism, which I suspect B sees through.

Honestly, I do think going on days out without A is more than a little different to going on holiday together and I can understand why B might feel a bit “left on the outside” by not being included in what might seem like a family holiday involving her two siblings. I think if you were being honest, you might understand that it may well feel like being left out and that this might sting a bit (even if you try to apply your logic of it only being about giving C’s children a holiday). I mean, if it were only about that surely A could simply pay for C and his family to go to centreparcs or a self-catering cottage or whatever, by themselves. But you don’t, so it’s not unreasonable for B to conclude that is not only about ensuring C’s children get a holiday. And that she, and her children, are not welcome. You obviously all have your reasons, and they aren’t unreasonable per se- but I can understand why B might be upset by the outcome, even if the intent behind it all is perfectly reasonable and generous.

I think C could have kept the comment to himself unless, or until, B had actually shown signs of being annoyed or going in a huff with A (I mean, I’ve been miffed about things but would never have acted upon it, though may have made a comment off the cuff to a 3rd party without any intent to fall out or say anything to the person I’m irritated/a bit miffed with). Had B actually fallen out with, gone in the huff with, or been rude to A- and A was unsure unsure why this was the case- then C could have said “well, they said this and I think that might be why B is miffed”. It does come across a bit like C was stirring a bit, perhaps on a background of fully expecting B to cause a fuss- but running straight to tell A what was said doesn’t seem totally sensible or innocent. It appears there is maybe a little bit of stirring (or perhaps reverting to their role in the family dynamic). I also think A might have been better to let sleeping dogs lie rather than contacting B to tell her they knew about a “half-joking” comment that was made and why they were very wrong to have made it. It all seems quite dramatic and unnecessary. Again, had B called A in a strop about it or stopped speaking to A, then fair enough. But as I understand it, B had not (yet) done that but after being contacted by A, she then contact her mother who has then taken sides. All seems a bit, well, unnecessary.

That said, B should recognise that she is not entitled to an invite or a free holiday provided by A. She just needs to accept that she isn’t invited, though is entitled to feel upset about it, if that is how she feels. Of course, if it is only about the free holiday then that makes her more unreasonable (and it might be just about the money or she might not want to admit that she feels left out, so you might never know the truth). I think involving her mum was probably also unnecessary and again seems to be causing unnecessary drama (unless she had simply spoken to her mum about a situation that upset her- either feeling left out or A calling to admonish/correct her- without asking or expecting her mum to wade in).

I think you all could have behaved better.

If I was B I would be upset, not about C having the holiday paid for but about not being invited along/ given the option to come (they could pay for themselves).

I don’t think it matters if B sees C a lot more often than A sees either of them, they are still missing out on family holidays/ their children missing out on holidays with their cousins. In fact the fact B sees C more means the cousins might be closer to each other: I’m not sure how old Bs children are but at some point they might question why they can’t go along too.

Obviously you can spend your money / holidays how you like but I do think B probably feels excluded and the children might feel this way in the future.

Yes I think Bs children missing out on an extended family holiday is a HUGE reason why she's upset.
Instead of Centerparcs A could have rented a house in a beauty spot and enjoyed spending time all together. You would've bonded seeing cousins together.