Anyone else absolutely shocked of three innocent people in Liverpool all drug related!!

[Toosadtocomprehend]

If anyone reading this that takes recreational drugs should be absolutely ashamed of the carnage that their habit is causing…an innocent 9 year old ,20 year old and 22 year old have lost their lives because of other people shitty pastimes …think think think before you snort or smoke that poison!!

Prior to the war on drugs there was 300 odd registered heroin addicts in either London or the UK I can't remember. Then they made it LESS EASILY AVAILABLE, and a decade later there were 300,000 unregistered heroin addicts with a regular, difficult to monitor, supply.

It doesn't work, it never has, it's a salve to weird puritan attitudes and nothing more

Plus when they criminalised it the streets were flooded with cheap smack and it was all over the inner cities. That's when the drug problem really kicked in in the UK (80s with heroin when the war on drugs started here).

Then it was tablets in the late 80s/early 90s which actually didn't lead to the same social problems (happy pills reduced nightlife crime) but then the dealers moved in and started undercutting it and weakening the product. Then by the turn of the century Cocaine had taken over from ecstasy as the nightlife/recreational drug of choice.

I've lived in countries where the death penalty can be given for severe drug crimes.

Didn't stop people dealing, importing or using drugs.

Anyone who suggests it as an answer, is the type of person who always tries to answer complicated issues with simple, one sentence answers and they're usually horribly wrong

Anyone who suggests it as an answer, is the type of person who always tries to answer complicated issues with simple, one sentence answers and they're usually horribly wrong

And typically believes 'common sense' is better than research and expertise.

Did 3 people die or just the poor girl? I’ve not heard anything about anyone other than the girl

3 people died in 3 separate incidents in Liverpool in a couple of days.

There you go, it wasn’t that hard was it.

you don’t want it decriminalized- you want it highly regulated. At least a coherent position that people might argue about.

this (political policy) paper (conveniently planted in a science journal) is quite interesting and says the problem is that drugs just haven’t been destigmatised enough. (the “We want to be free and we want to get loaded” model).

Now maybe Kate Moss and her Libertine buddies can get loaded without any visible repercussions. But if you want to be free to get loaded, and then expect other people to go along with a victim/addict bullshit narrative when it goes tits up, you are going to get fuck all sympathy.

And your cheap little salve for Puritanism effort. Just another hypocrite going “she’s frigid” isn’t it. I’ll repeat what I said at the start- people taking coke are funding murders. They aren’t a group entitled to my respect, and neither are their enablers.

And you still haven’t got to acknowledging why death penalties for drug dealer are so popular (and if you can do it without being homophobic or racist that would be great.)

At least be accurate. I didn’t say I was in favour, (I am against the death penalty in all cases) I said it was popular in countries that have it.

And I think in democratic societies that’s actually OK. It’s their country, their vote, and they need neither my permission nor yours to execute dealers. As horrific as that might sound.

When you opine that countries ravaged by drugs (even more than the UK has been) should be soft of those profiting the most from it, you just sound like an absolute twat.

There you go, it wasn’t that hard was it.

you don’t want it decriminalized- you want it highly regulated. At least a coherent position that people might argue about.

Is there some reason you're being so snippy with PP? Obviously no one sane wants entirely unregulated, everything legal with no controls. FFS.

A combination of the Swiss and Portuguese models suits fine thanks. If you want more precise modeling, maybe ask a bit less twattishly.

And you still haven’t got to acknowledging why death penalties for drug dealer are so popular (and if you can do it without being homophobic or racist that would be great.)

Reach much? Pointing out that different countries have different cultural normal that impact on the decisions they make in their legal system isn't racist. Pointing out that there are countries where people get executed for all kinds of things we generally like and approve of here, is not homophobic

You lack coherence. Why does regulation impact it's legal status? You know about cigs and booze yeah?

Nice rewind on your death penalty position

Also if you could suggest something, an alternative, that has a record of achieving anything in any country, that isn't hang em. If be interested to hear. So far you've tried to shoot people down, adopted a strangely flowery approach to being insulting and said we should look towards some drug addled failed states for inspiration. The things we know don't work

The war on drugs is a huge failure and shaming people into not wanting to get off their heads has never worked. Any public policy has to start with those two realities.

Are you against it or not?

This might be tricky for you but I am against the death penalty. I am for democratic processes, which are undermined by drugs.
I support other peoples right to be pro death-penalty even though I disagree with them on it.

I would never use someone’s having a different value to me on whether democratically legal death penalty is good, to assume that they are homophobic and want to throw gay people off buildings.

And if you want to go dabbling in cultural differences you might ask yourself why the Sacklers (Pharma drug peddlers as per your preferred model, are Republicans, who are the biggest supporters of the death penalty.)

It seems to me that your failing is assuming that there is an easy solution, or even worse, assuming that the moral superiority you’ve awarded yourself has some basis is reality.

If people can’t even decide what “An effective drug policy” would look like, how can we possibly even think about how to get there.

Is an effective drug policy one in which choosing whether to get off your face on alcohol or coke is just a matter of which is your preferred tipple?

Guns and knives are the cause of this

guns and knives dont kill people ,people kill people

The reason that I and many others I reckon would struggle with the idea of an opponent of the death penalty being in support of the death penalty in certain instances is because it's nonsense.

I don't think there's an easy solution but I'm capable of looking to countries that have done quite alot of the work on this already, rather than harking towards countries with more repressive policies and ongoing problems.

And still you don't actually say anything.

That's because I wasn't responding directly to you. If I was I would have quoted you or tagged you @FreudayNight like this

But to be honest I can't make head nor tail of your unlettered posts anyway

The reason that I and many others I reckon would struggle with the idea of an opponent of the death penalty being in support of the death penalty in certain instances is because it's nonsense.

Do you want to think that through?
The principle is very simple, it’s from Voltaire “I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” (Although I can admit to being less principled than Voltaire and would give up my own right to free speech, never mind yours, long before it was defending to the death).

what you’re saying is you reject other countries rights (just talking about the democratic ones here) to have systems of government you disagree with? Or is it that you accept their right to the death penalty whilst retaining your own right to make a cat’s bum face on the internet because you’re better than the unlettered.

Do you think the murders in Mexico will stop if they just decriminalized everything.? No you don’t- you just do not care.

Yes all drug related crime would reduce if drugs were legalised. In all countries

Yes I reject anyone's right to think that executing people is fair or right.

That's pretty standard in opposing the death penalty I am surprised you haven't come across it before.

Also interesting seeing Voltaire (incorrectly) invoked in support of repressive justice. That's an unusual thing to take away from that quote of Halls

Do you think the murders in Mexico will stop if they just decriminalized everything.? No you don’t- you just do not care.

Not stop but reduce, yes. And Mexico is an interesting case because of the American market. It's so linked that it would be difficult to see the effects as people would still have to operate illegally for the US market. Decriminalise in the States and you would see a massive fall in drug-related murders.

The big one for me is drug-related deaths generally, ODs and similar. They fall dramatically after more sensible solutions are found.

And you say 'you just don't care' about deaths. Why do you think people advocate for legalisation if they don't care about deaths or addiction?

And you say 'you just don't care' about deaths. Why do you think people advocate for legalisation if they don't care about deaths or addiction?

We just care wrong

Well obviously when you legalize something it no longer counts in the crime figures, and you therefore ‘reduce crime.’

Some people are trying to reduce harms, or even actually reduce usage.

And you say 'you just don't care' about deaths. Why do you think people advocate for legalisation if they don't care about deaths or addiction?

Because they have drugs they want to sell?

lol