Anyone else absolutely shocked of three innocent people in Liverpool all drug related!!

[Toosadtocomprehend]

If anyone reading this that takes recreational drugs should be absolutely ashamed of the carnage that their habit is causing…an innocent 9 year old ,20 year old and 22 year old have lost their lives because of other people shitty pastimes …think think think before you snort or smoke that poison!!

You're assuming that there is a consistent demand for psychotropic substances, and that the only thing that changes is the proportions in which we use them - so if alcohol use declines, that means that use of street drugs must have increased proportionately.

The evidence doesn't suggest that is true. Reported use of street drugs is pretty stable, even amongst groups in which alcohol use is declining.

Street drugs are subject to fashion and influenced by social acceptability, just as other consumables are. Injecting heroin has always been seen as crossing a line. PCP and crack are relatively unacceptable in the UK because people have seen the extent to which they fuck you up (you can argue whether PCP is really worse than ketamine, but PCP definitely has a worse reputation). Consumers make informed choices about drugs, just as they do with any other purchase.

That's really interesting thanks for posting and explaining that.

I wonder if technology use is replacing some of the need for a quick high.

The widespread availability of all different types of drugs has massively increased. Authorities are way way behind on current distribution methods or even what's out there, research chemicals are as plentiful and even more varied than when they were "banned". Arrest and seizure records won't mean much when arrest and seizure isn't an increasing tactic

you can argue whether PCP is really worse than ketamine,

Only if you're a fucking idiot

I am a fan of true crime books. I remember reading 'The Devil' by Steven French. Eye opening account of drugs and violence in Liverpool.

It should also be remembered that Liverpool, also has the reputation of being the UK'S friendliest city.

I think they are going by surveys. I haven't read the methodology and we all know how self reporting has issues but providing they are using the same methodology I would think that it would be reliable in terms of general increase or decrease.

That said I would be really interested to see the methodology as I wonder if they switched to online surveys which I think would increase under reporting.

Why should that be remembered? What's your point? Also who says that?

It's not, actually.

SweetSenorita I agree with you, because it went downhill a while ago.

YANBU. The demand for drugs fuels violent crime here and in other countries. It doesn't matter whether you're a street addict, a casual joint smoker or a recreational coke sniffer, you bear some of the blame for it.

Most of my friends took cocaine in our twenties. Huge quantities of it; we worked in media. We didn't care because we could afford the habit, it didn't affect our jobs, and the violence and desperation of the drugs trade felt very very far away from our well off SW London neighbourhood.

I haven't touched them in years and never would again - I stopped because I was going to become a parent, but I now see how utterly destructive it is and how I was a part of the problem, even if my hands felt clean. Most of my old crowd have stopped or hugely cut down.

Those who haven't stopped just don't care about what they're doing and probably won't stop any time soon. There aren't consequences when you're holding your life together, having fun and recreational drug use in your circle is rife - there is no judgment so there's no shame.

I don't know what to suggest.

Another reason our drug situation in this country isn't quite the same as America isn't because people know the dangers if meth from seeing what happened in America it's because we have (historically) less prohibitive drug laws and consequently get the choice to take better illegal drugs.

In America consequences are higher which makes home made shite more appealing as it involves less trafficking etc.

Similar thing in Australia aided by proximity to yabba and prescriptive drug laws

I haven't touched them in years and never would again - I stopped because I was going to become a parent, but I now see how utterly destructive it is and how I was a part of the problem, even if my hands felt clean. Most of my old crowd have stopped or hugely cut down.

Shamelessly similar situation here. I don't know who the feck we thought we were some sort of cosmopolitan early 20's group of wannabes.

Definitely a huge lack of judgement and education around the devastation drugs caused.

Though there was consequences for a few of us, the dark road cocaine usage leads to everything comes tumbling down.

I really don't think legalising drugs will make any difference. Drug dealers are very hard people and wouldn't take kindly to that method as it would rob them of their profits.

This isn't Columbia or Mexico they can't really do much about it.

Yeah, them being upset is not really something we need to be concerned about. What does concern me, and I'm broadly pro legalisation, is what money making avenues they might pursue instead.

Indeed but then that speaks to wider issues doesn't it? I'm like you, broadly pro legalisation but under no illusions that it doesn't come with its own set of problems.

True but has no bearing on whether it's right or wrong to ignore science and harm in favour of votes

Cocaine use is rife in certain sectors, including so-called professionals. They aren't doing drugs as a result of trauma or mental health issues, they're just doing it for a high on a Saturday night.

And your prostitute comparison is ridiculous. It is more appropriate to blame the consumers who buy the "goods".

I don't hold much credence for the much vaunted legalize argument. It's all rather Panglossian optimism, Broken windows theory puts the argument to bed.

He's also got a very interesting book about his real world experiences as an undercover officer and how the drug war needs to end.

Couple of interesting podcasts with him as well on Dear Lovejoy.

Jesus, broken windows theory. It's been years since I heard that. Probably because it's been largely discredited.

Weird you would think a theory with basically no evidence base would "put something to bed".

In answer to the question in the OP though. No I am not shocked that a war on drugs has victims. In every other war we accept a certain amount of collateral damage. This is the collateral damage of the war on drugs.

We were promised a harm reduction led approach to drugs 15 years ago and since then it's proven to be cheaper and more populist to instead shift the blame to users instead and try and tackle it that way.

Interesting approach to crime, asking people not to do it, I wonder why no one thought of that as serious suggestion before

It's since the war on drugs started in the UK (pretty much the Thatcher years) that drugs have become a major problem anyway. Heroin flooded into the streets in the early 80s just after it was proper criminalised. Then in the late 80s/early 90s it was ecstasy tablets until the dealers kept making the pills weaker to increase their profit margins.

From the late 90s onwards Cocaine has been the dominant illegal drug and Cannabis is everywhere else. Plus newer stuff like MDMA.

I'd say war on drugs has been the worst ongoing policy in the country (UK and US) for the last several decades, but tbf there's too much competition for that title.

Interesting approach to crime, asking people not to do it, I wonder why no one thought of that as serious suggestion before

😂