In general AIBU to think children do better long term with separated parents than living all together in an unhappy marriage?

[Invasionofthegutsnatchers]

DH and I disagree on this. He thinks it's always better to stay together as a family unit.

AIBU to say that actually, after the initial shock and upset (which can be mitigated to some extent), it is better for the marriage to end and for the parents to move on with separate lives, making sure the children are loved and cared for in separate homes? Keeping communication going etc.

DH doesn't want to split. I do. This is absolute hell so please be nice to me if possible

@CrockOff

I agree but I'm late 30s - been with DH nearly 20 years. Have 3 young children - 2 under 2 at age 38 to I need to prepare myself for a life on my own? Forever? To avoid giving them a step parent? I doubt DH would do the same? Although admittedly the thought of going back to dating etc fills me with horror

It depends on your earnings. Combined earnings pay for a better home and lifestyle compared to two separate homes on your individual salaries.

I have a nice house on a middle class estate, but if I left my DH then I’d be taking my kids to live somewhere that’s maybe worth a quarter of the value, in an area with higher crime and drugs. My kids have music lessons and dance classes and football, which would have to stop if we were paying for two separate homes. It would be ridiculously unfair of me to leave my marriage because it would negatively impact my kids.

I'm not saying you should do anything. That's why I said personally. Having been a step parent, one who finds the entire thing just completely shit tbh, no I wouldn't do it again nor would I want to give my child a step parent who could potentially feel that way about them. Obviously I couldn't stop my husband doing that on his side of course.

So yeah, I'd date and see a partner when my DC wasn't around or occasionally with them, but I'd not move in with them.

This is all hypothetical to me though because I'm not getting divorced.

You’re absolutely right.
This is why when talking about first and second children, I always disagree that second children instantly have the better life just because their parents both live under the same roof.

It could be completely toxic for all anyone knows and not beneficial for the second child at all. And judging by some of the threads I have read on here about men not pulling their weight, heavy drinking, no ambition for their family, pissing money away etc… it’s not hard to think why the child who is resident with him is getting a shit deal compared to the non resident child who gets to have a stable happy life with their mum which is only achieved by their father not being there with their mum.

I attended some lectures about this as part of a course I did some time ago. It was mainly looking at the effect of father absence on the DCs. The overall picture seemed to be that it wasn't so much the split, or loss of the father in their daily lives that caused problems, but more the attitudes of the parents following the split.

It was found that a parent dying tended to have a smaller negative impact on the DC (of course they were devastated) because the remaining parent tended to speak very positively about the dead one afterwards and were more likely to acknowledge and sympathise with their loss, long term. There was rarely any suggestion that the absence of the missing parent was positive in any way.

Children where one parent was very negative about the absent one, even if this was quite subtle, or the parent was unaware they were showing it, did the worst. This was exacerbated where they found the same negativity from both parents. Boys, especially, seemed to struggle when their main male role model - their father - was seen in a negative light. Also children were aware that half of their genetic make up was from the absent parent, and took on board that they were therefore as 'bad' as that parent.

Obviously each family is different, but there have been quite a lot of studies on the subject which show a broad picture of the possible effects of splits. And give some suggestions as to how to minimise the impact on the children.

it’s not hard to think why the child who is resident with him is getting a shit deal compared to the non resident child who gets to have a stable happy life with their mum which is only achieved by their father not being there with their mum

It's harder than that. It's an individual experience. My ex sees our children, always has done, but being self employed, has never made a contribution. He fannies around making enough for him to manage, but that's it. Not enough to pay tax or enough cash in hand to keep HMRC at bay. Total waste of space. My kids have had a hard life with me - first and last in childcare when in primary. A mother constantly stressed about bills. No spare money for activities other than cheap stuff like cubs. A mother constantly on the side hustle to keep our heads above water. Sure, they didn't want for anything and sure it was stable, but it was something their friends with two parents didn't have to deal with.

And studies do show, outside of toxic environments, children do better in 2 parent homes

I think you nees to define 'better'. Plenty of children who have had all the advantages life has to offer fail exams, take drugs and generally go off the rails. Plenty of children who were dragged up by a less than perfect parent struggling with mental health and poverty have gone on to do amazing things in life. Statistically, yes, children in two parent families 'do better' but the majority of children in one parent households have good outcomes as well. It is easy to forget that and if forgotten, leaves people in unhappy, unsatisfactory and sometimes dangerous situations.

@CrockOff

Yes I could do that - I think it will be years before I decide to sail those waters again anyway

So you already have separate bedrooms and lives basically within the home.

That is bloody dysfunctional and yes the best thing to do is split and work out how to co-parent really well.

Your kids are not learning how normal relationships work.

It's not selfish to split because you have fallen out of love. It really isn't!

You don't only have a right to split if there's abuse or an affair or conflict. Your happiness is important too - it isn't just about the children.

And although separation might have an affect on the kids, so will modelling a dysfunctional relationship and your unhappiness. Many parents who split do put their children first and try to minimise the effects. And many parents choose NOT to dive into a blended family arrangement precisely because they are putting their children first.

I can't believe the rubbish on this thread. you don't have to be a martyr. It's your lift too.

Of course it's your life too, and everyone has a right to make their own decisions about what they think is the right thing to do.

However, the OP didn't ask what she should do, or whether it would be OK to put her own needs first etc. She asked if children do better when their parents separate or when their parents stay together in an unhappy marriage. And the answer to that question depends on many variables, as people have said above.

In cases where there is abuse or violence, or just lots of anger and tension, then the children will almost invariably do better with separated parents. In cases where the parents can live together fairly amicably for the sake of the children, then the kids will probably do better if they stay together. That doesn't mean that the parents shouldn't split up anyway, if that's what they want to do. It just means that they need to be honest about the fact that they're doing it for themselves and not because it's "better for the children".

Sometimes there will be a conflict between what's best for the kids and what's best for the parents. It may not always be possible or desirable to put the kids first, but we might as well be honest with ourselves about how things are.

🙌🏼

Yes getting back to the original question the OP asked

My parents were/are very love hate - that film war of the roses sums it up - they at times absolutely should have split but didn't. I don't think it's made my relationships dysfunctional or my siblings. Both in (or maybe were in) long term marriages. I always strived to have a better marriage than my parents and resolve conflict more quickly that's maybe only the one thing that is based on my childhood - and that isn't a bad thing - they could do silent treatment for days!

As for my own children - we don't row infront of them they just see 2 very busy parents who aren't often in the same room as each other so perhaps if we are both willing we could carry on. There's no passion though that's what I worry about. Even though my parents rowed they were passionate 🔥 about each other and still are. I want my children to grow up seeing love between their parents

I do understand. My children’s father pays nothing and my struggles are just the same as yours. It is really really tough. I do everything for them, so please don’t think I don’t know what it’s like.

My children were definitely were worse off when they lived with a heavy drinking father who chose not to work or pull his weight. I can’t see how that was in any way a more desirable way for them to live than the life they have now with just me.

Like you say, it’s all just individual experience. I can’t help but feel really sorry for those children being stuck with a bad father full time though.

I think the research suggests that children do better in low conflict homes over the parents splitting up and being amicable. I would have loved my parents to stay together - they split when I was 6 - they both remarried over time and instead of me having a family I just became part of two separate (new) families, I've never had a true sense of belonging. My parents OTOH think they did an amazing job showing us "what healthy relationships should look like" with their new partners. My mum even boasts that me and my sibling were not affected by the divorce
I had a school friend whose parents were separated but decided to live together until the youngest was 18. They were civil but not on great terms, but my friend said she was so glad they sacrificed to do this so that her and her younger siblings had a stable home. I'm still so jealous that she got that experience.
The reality is that children are inherently selfish and want their needs met, they aren't bothered if their parents are feeling unfulfilled or aren't modelling ideal relationships.

Myself and my ex are currently living together since we split 4.5 years ago. We decided to stay living together for many reasons but mostly because we both wanted to raise our children together. It was very hard and painful for a while post split and we still have arguments but mostly we get along and coparent very effectively. It helps that above all else our kids come first in every single decision we make and neither of us are even remotely interested in getting involved with someone else.

If anything my ex has stepped up to the plate and is 10 times the parent he used to be when we were married. It’s not for the faint hearted and is really tough sometimes but I am so glad we’re doing it this way. I don’t feel like I’m missing out, I’ve been in relationships my whole adult life and am thoroughly enjoying not being in one for once!

Just wanted to show you another angle for separation. I wish you well OP x

Very much this. The objective recognition of the needs of your parents is very much from an adult perspective, if it happens at all. Unless the household is abusive, and even sometimes when it is, for the most part children want to keep the status quo and the security of what they know, even if imperfect.

It's poverty which has the biggest impact.

As long as the children are provided for in a financially stable environment then whether the parents are together or not doesn't make much difference.

I had a very stable childhood until my teenage years. I can see now that my parents are just not very compatible, but they rubbed along fine and I wasn’t aware of any issues. There was no form of abuse. My mum was unhappy, and when she made the decision to divorce when I was 13 she traded her happiness for mine.

I know this was not her plan - she had no way of knowing I wasn’t one of those resilient children that can withstand moving home and shuttling between two houses 50/50. It was shit. While all my friends were carefree and meeting boys, I was miserable and went into a depression (not diagnosed or particularly noticed by anyone, but looking back was pretty obvious). I felt I couldn’t leave either parent alone when it was my days with them, as my mum made such a fuss of time being equal. I spent my teenage years missing out on normal experiences and that screwed up relationships in my twenties (no relationships in my teens).

I was completely destabilised at a time when stability is crucial.

I understand that my mum was unhappy and have more sympathy for her now. But if I have children I will always have it in my mind that childhood/teenage years sort of “count more” - being happy and stable from the age of 13-19 would have been vital and I think put my life on a more positive path. My mum was happier in those years, when she was 48-54. Those are less significant years and I just wish she could have stayed in a boring marriage for a few more years.

Also, agree that 50/50 may be better for parents but in my experience it was frankly awful as a teen. Please have a discussion with children about it, or ask an aunt or someone to sit and get their honest opinion. It is a very difficult and exhausting way to live. Also keep it an ongoing discussion and let them suggest different models.

Yes and no.

Unfortunately I don't think children being blended into other families, endless new partners and new children is a good thing once that first family unit bond has been broken.

My own parents were at total war and should have split up sooner but at least they championed the children they had together and shared that bond.

Unfortunately I know of too many DC who have been victims of families blended so much that they get abandoned, left with grandparents, foster care etc.

Because the parents have moved on and moved on and no one cares about them anymore..

I’m not sure I really believe in this modelling a good relationship thing. One of the reasons I married my ex was because his parents had a strong loving relationship, as did mine. I thought he would be a good husband because of this but he cheated and treated me dreadfully. Although his parents had a good relationship, they did spoil him and this I think was the defining factor.

As for modelling a good relationship for my own children, I have been unable to find another partner and I think my children do feel a sense that I am lonely, although I try to hide it.

My parents divorced when I was pretty young and, although it was nor great for me in some significant ways, I do think the good relationships they each subsequently had gave me a much better model. My sibling and I are both in good long term relationships as adults.

I also had much older stepsiblings who I didn't live with, and no half siblings. I think that helped a lot. Because of that, I wouldn't have more children with a future partner if DP and I split up (assuming I was still able to).

I've seen some evidence suggesting that separation during teen years is particularly harmful compared to for younger children, so I would probably stay for a while if my relationship broke down at that point in my children's lives. That seems more worth it to me.

On the outside, it looks better, due to unrealistic societal expectations.

However, to stay in an unhappy marriage, just to save face, money, property etc., is one of the most selfish things you can do to your child.

My 2 DC are much better now they have 2 happy parents able to love them separately rather than 2angry, shout, miserable parents.
No it's not easy but it's so much better for the DC