In general AIBU to think children do better long term with separated parents than living all together in an unhappy marriage?

[Invasionofthegutsnatchers]

DH and I disagree on this. He thinks it's always better to stay together as a family unit.

AIBU to say that actually, after the initial shock and upset (which can be mitigated to some extent), it is better for the marriage to end and for the parents to move on with separate lives, making sure the children are loved and cared for in separate homes? Keeping communication going etc.

DH doesn't want to split. I do. This is absolute hell so please be nice to me if possible

I jumped straight in with this, but reading this thread has been an eye opener. My parents only separated when I was in my late teens, and they had spent the previous ten years either not speaking or screaming at each other. It was toxic and I do still think the years they were together were more traumatic. BUT I appreciate that, as a child, I never had to split myself between households, money wasn’t really a worry and I was old enough to have my own life going on when they met other people (who thank goodness have been fine). If you have young DC and you can try and make things work in a civil way then maybe staying together is a better option. Such a minefield.

I'm not saying that anyone has to do anything, I'm just saying what I think is "best" for the kids. And new partners may occasionally fall into that category but in most cases, I think they don't.

As for 50/50, I know it works great for lots of parents. I just don't know any kids who have grown up with this arrangement who think the same. I'm sure that there are exceptions, and I have no wish to offend, but I honestly don't understand why anyone would think that having to split your time equally between two different houses is "best" for the children. It is the fairest split for the parents, undoubtedly, but it isn't what I would choose if I was going to put the dc first.

Kids at the time that they are kids couldn’t give a flying fuck if their parents are happy or not

I think that way too many parents kid themselves that the children don't hear, or see anything. They do. They also sense and take in everything. Modelling matters.
How children take separation is down to how the parents act. When there are issues, it's mostly because the parents are too busy point scoring and bickering to truly put the children first. I see no point in staying in an unhappy relationship because the lesson it teaches isn't one I want my children taking on board.

Well he would wouldn't he. He is using it to get you to stay with him.
Pack up move on, but don't expect him to play fair or help your children move on.
Split up now because it's going to happen, sooner is best for everyone

I 100% agree with all of this. I think it’d be interesting if posters said what kind of hole they grew up in AND what set-up they have now too; I imagine there’ll be a lot from 2 parent families, now themselves divorced talking about how ‘resilient’ kids are. My parents split up when I was 3 and for years I was adamant ‘staying together for the kids’ was nonsense, but now as an adult I don’t feel the same. If just fallen out of love / don’t like each other all that much but can be friendly and civil day to day I think that’s absolutely better for children. Not what most people want to hear though.

I'm splitting now after 34 years, kids are late teens and have clearly been affected by us arguing all of their lives. I'm full of regret and self loathing for allowing this to go on, H is now trying to get them to say they had happy childhoods - I don't know what's true anymore. I'd say split whilst they are young, but I was always worried about him having 50:50 as he was manipulative. But definitely if you can, do it earlier. Show the kids what a happy Mum looks like.

People deserve all kinds of things they don’t get, for better and for worse. It’s a shame for people in that scenario, but I think that’s a small sacrifice to make rather than force the children to be the ones sacrificing. And studies do show, outside of toxic environments, children do better in 2 parent homes. Again, not that people like to hear that.

Yanbu. As long as the children's living arrangements suit them. Eg; parents living close by, kids allowed to continue with extra curricular activities and ideally staying in one house while the parents move back and forth.
My parents never liked each other. It was no hassle when they split. Extra Xmas presents too.

I totally agree that many parents probably kid themselves that their kids don't pick up on their unhappiness in marriage. Kids are generally pretty observant in my experience.

At the same time, I think a lot of parents kid themselves into thinking that their kids are not affected by their parents splitting. I think this is rarely the case, even if the split is managed really well. And so many are handled badly.

Sadly, I think the harsh truth is that most children will be negatively affected if their parents are unhappy in their relationship. Whether they will be more negatively affected by the parents staying together or by them separately depends on a whole raft of variables that will be different for each family. I don't think there is a single one-size-fits-all answer to what is best.

It is really tough especially when there are children and even more so if the couple were married. I fully agree with you and you have realistic perspective with regards to the initial phase and how you pull through. All the best.

Exactly; thanks to separated parents I also didn’t know what a healthy relationship looked like (and my mum did have 1 relationship after splitting from my dad, years later taken very slowly and it still was damaging when it ended badly)

It depends on how bad the current family life is and what type of life can be had by the main or co parents post divorce. To take a child with two loving parents (loving to child) who are just not compatible with one another from a lovely home to a tiny flat in a poor area, moving to poorer performing schools , isn't necessarily better. From a violent household to anywhere peaceful is better.

Don't know your situation, or how safe it is to stay, so certainly wouldn't give advice or judge your choices given how little we know. But since you asked I will share a perspective and my experience. Just watched some people close to us split up, it's been so hard on their kids. Hard on others around them too. We hope and pray they can work it out.

we got very close to that point ourselves at one point, so I do get it. Our Marraige felt like it was over 12 years ago. We married very young, it had been 8 years of difficulties, while we struggled with poor health, financial problems, loss, miscarriages etc as we tried to adjust to each other. I felt like, I was done, that life would be easier without him. But my husband was not in favour of a split. To him it was unthinkable, his parents had been through worse and stuck it out and moreover for us theologically the Marraige covenent is sacred and permanent, so divorce is not an option which is consistant with our faith. I chose to stay for that reason. (For safety in abusive situations or for unfaithfulness certainly separation would've been considered.)

So I chose to stay, It was hard, but over time things improved imensly, my Grandmother suggested actively working on my Marraige rather that allowing myself to feel hard done by. By choosing to see the good 8n him and his habits, to pray for him more, to recognise things I needed to stop doing- that might be making things worse, to show respect and gentleness even when I didn't always feel it. Amazingly things began to improved, I really saw God's grace in the situation, my husband became more considerate and more involved in parenting, two years and a baby later I was so glad I'd stuck it out. Just celebrated our twentieth anniversary another 10 years on, and can honestly say it's been so worth it for us both and the kids. Our relationship is warm, he makes me laugh everyday, is a good father, husband and provider. I am grateful he stood his ground and didn't give up on us, I am glad I managed not to be led by my emotions at the time either. The kids have a security knowing that we are committed to Marraige permanence and that we have worked through some though times In the past and grew in commitment and love because of it.

Exactly this, again. No adult would choose to live like that but it’s apparently not just acceptable for DC, but ‘best’

Made my life hell that’s for sure and it would have been better to start to see what else life could be sooner rather than splitting when neither could take any more which turned out to be when their children both had exams.

If there is genuine liking, respect and still fun but not not love then maybe staying could work if both parties are happy, but that is unusual. Any amount of disrespect or toxicity and it needs to be done with asap.

I understand what people are saying that children pick up on unhappy parents, but I didn't particularly notice they weren't communicating much. So I didn't realise. I didn't discuss it with my mother and she never said anything.

What a child may pick up on is how stressed and busy their mother is trying to keep food on the table in a vastly poorer home, income etc. Being a latchkey kid can't be much fun either. Its not cut and dried.

I’m really sorry to read this though, @HangerLaneGyratorySystem. You did the best you could and I’m sure your kids know you love them very much. The honest truth is the ‘best’ is a long-term happy marriage, but that’s hard and really quite rare. All the other options are making the best decision you can at the time, which you did. Your kids might have been affected by arguments as you say, but they’d have been affected by splitting too. There’s no telling which would have been ‘better’ and really no use hating yourself for doing your best. You don’t deserve that, at all.

I think outside of living fearfully, living in poverty is what wrecks the life chances of children. Modelling a gold standard partnership is probably for the best but falls someway below the former in terms of coldly calculating the factors around what is best for the children.

So, it would depend on what is left when the dust settles from a potential divorce.

The research suggests children do best in situations of no/low conflict. So if parents can stay together without constant upset, that would be best for the children. For most people, however, that would be impossible so separation is usually best, followed by at least one parent putting them first and minimising on-going conflict.

However, what also need to be considered is the impact of living in a one-income household, particularly when no maintenance or very little maintenance is paid by the other parent (and this, unfortunately, now seems to be statistically the norm).

I think overall, maternal education levels are the biggest factor in determining outcomes for all children so if mum is well educated and earning, some of the issues above are evened out.

I think staying together "for the sake of the child/ren" puts a huge amount of responsibility on them. My friend's parents did exactly that and I remember her, at age 13, crying and telling me that it would be better if she was "not here as then (her) parents wouldn't have to stay together anymore and they would be happier". With the help of an aunt she told her parents how she felt and they split up not long afterwards.

I appreciate that the above is only 1 story but when my marriage went belly up the thought that my own DD might feel as my friend did all those years ago made me decide that splitting up was the best option.

I don’t understand saddling one’s children with a father who isn’t an acceptable life partner and believe that people should be a lot more careful about who they procreate with

why are you blaming mothers? Why not actually blame fathers for being less than decent when it comes to their children? Do you challenge men you come across - at work, in your family, at a sports club…- when they boast about not paying maintenance? Or when they slag off the ex who ‘won’t let them see the children’? Who only see their children one night a fortnight and moan about how it stops them going out?

Statistically, most abuse starts when a woman is pregnant. So when you blame women for not choosing carefully enough, you’re actually blaming women for not having had a crystal ball.

I've recently separated from my husband. Both my children (now adults) have told me they wish I'd split up with their father years ago.

They were both aware of the arguments etc and there was always an atmosphere in the house. Both of them are a bit screwed up with their own relationships and I hate to think that I've taught them that they need to stay in an unhappy relationship because it's the 'right' thing to do.

There isn't one answer I don't feel. Surely neither situation is completely perfect, staying in an unhappy marriage or separating. But making the best of tough situations is part of life and so I personally wouldn't stay in an unhappy marriage for my DC but I'd do absolutely everything I could after that to make it as easy as possible for them.

Personally for me that would be avoiding giving them a step parent where I could. That is not because I'm against step parents at all. It's because I am one and it's frankly pretty shit and I often think life would be easier if my husband's DC didn't exist despite it not at all being their fault. I don't want my child being in that position if I can help it. So I'd date but not move in.