To be shocked at how many of today's children behave?

[PlutoCritter]

Let me start by saying i'm in my early 30s and I definitely don't come from a "children are seen and not heard"/military-family type background where children weren't allowed to speak. my parents were quite laid back in some ways. however:

we've had our first child and this year i've started to make my first mum friends. (no dads, it's very traditional around here, all either SAHMs or part-time working mums as the primary carer, in a new fairly middle class area which we've only been living in for the last year or so, so don't have strong social networks yet.)

I've only really started to host "play dates" in the last few months and very often the baby's parents bring older DC along,which I thought was great!

So it's 2x babies plus (say) a 4 year old and a 5 year old. or a couple of 3 year olds plus a 7 year old. most recently, a 5 and a 6 year old with 2 babies visited.

and JESUS CHRIST, the average bahaviour is feral!

Most have been jumping on the sofa (to the point I thought it was going to break springs and had to tell them to calm it down myself eventually), one child going into our bedroom and looking through the wardrobe (!!) when going to the bathroom, one was repeatedly sneaking into the kitchen where i was making lunch and stealing stuff from the fridge 10 minutes before i was due to serve it, lunch just smashed up into a ball of mess and not eaten by older kids (5-7 years) regularly. Getting up halfway through a meal to run off and play with toys at age 8. Constant whining for snacks and sugar drinks. One refused to drink anything at all during a 2hr visit because we only had milk or water (i literally had no juice in the house to offer). Stealing food from other people's plates. Constantly interrupting adults having a chat - not while being ignored, just as the normal way of communicating. Ramming metal car toys into the wall so the wallpaper is scratched and the plaster has dents in it in the living room.

A few days ago, one little "darling" decided it would be funny to remove all the sofa cushions and drag them into the dining room so no one could sit down until it was all fixed as we helped the littler DC take shoes and coats off, then the %/6 (ish) child stood giggling while the adults just sorted it. if i'd done that as a kid as a guest my mum would have brought the wrath of god down on me there and then!

I genuinely don't believe a lot of this would have been accepted when I was a kid, and the first couple of play dates, i thought we'd just met a couple of bad apples, but it's now 5-6 visits with 3 different families. i'm not happy to accept further playdates at home if it's going to be like this and people think it's normal. DH is the same, he's been shocked at the state of the house when people have left and on the times he's been here, he's sick of people not telling their kids how to behave as a guest and feels similarly uncomfortable at e.g. having to intervene when a child has been doing something dangerous or damaing while the parent sits and ignores it.

please tell me this isn't normal????

(let me be clear, the kids seem perfectly NICE as children, and they play nicely, e.g. sharing toys, it's just the general disrespect for adults or breaking things that i am finding absolutely shocking.)

I don’t think I’ve said that children should be forced to eat (mine certainly aren’t forced to eat things they don’t like). But as a parent I certainly would not be happy if mealtimes were that disastrous and the kids were eating an endless stream of junk instead. And it pretty much was the ‘unless’ you mention i.e. whining for snacks.

I think we maybe are a bit old fashioned in our house though because whilst I would never force a child to eat something they actively dislike, mine are told (on refusing dinner) that it will be waiting for them later when they are ready for it. If I left it entirely up to their whims on what they will eat on what day we would struggle to get a balanced diet in. Each child has one evening per week where they choose dinner, if they don’t want to eat someone else’s choice (but it is something they would ordinarily eat) it’s just tough luck.

I think one has to remember that parents may react very differently when visiting than at home. Partly because they don't want to inflict tantrums as well as everything else on their hosts. Partly out of embarrassment.

This often leads to either of two extremes. Either the parents become passive and don't interfere with their children's behaviour at all, like some of those described here; or they micromanage and seek to anticipate and prevent anything that can go wrong. I definitely prefer the latter extreme, but I've noticed that some MN-ers sneer at it as 'performance parenting'.

I think that hosts have every right to tell visiting children, 'In this house, we don't jump on the sofa' or whatever it might be.

@CaptainBeakyandhisband out of interest how old are your kids?

Yes our local outdoor pool since covid has a strict half an hour a lane booking system. At the end of the half hour out you get and the next swimmer gets that lane.

This sends the sappy gentle parents into a flat spin. Their kid just HAS to get out - no negotiation. Some of scenes are painful to watch as some parents are actually incapable of getting their primary aged kid to do something. I just get in and start swimming while they flap about. It’s pathetic how little control they have.

definately not normal behaviour, my kids never went on like that and neither did their friends, we arent middle class either :)

@Cinnabomb young to mid primary age, but tbh this is not a new thing for us, it’s been pretty much since they were tiny. We’ve always eaten together and eaten all the same thing; we’ve always allowed input to choosing dinner when possible and when dates and stocks in the house allow. We’ve become more structured about it as they’ve got older, but even when quite little they would not have been able to refuse dinner and demand snacks 10 minutes later. We’ve always had alternatives available, if someone really doesn’t fancy what’s on offer that day they might get a boiled egg. They also don’t have to clear their plate (though they often will). My kids would happily live on chocolate, crisps and sweets if allowed, and I think many other kids would too.

but I know so many fussy kids, my sister’s child (now a teen) still seems to be restricted to beige food. And there are quite a few friends of ours whose kids make mealtimes restrictive. I don’t think kids should be force fed, but I also think that some kids need and respond well to boundaries to help them learn about healthy balance when it comes to food.

Definitely not normal (or acceptable) OP. I have 3 children under the age of 8 and I wouldn't allow my children to behave like that, even when they were all younger. Like you I also don't think children should be seen and not heard, but this sounds disrespectful.

Secondary teacher here. It’s hell and the kids get worse every year. Been teaching for 24 years so am saying this with conviction. People have no idea what we put up with on a daily basis.

I wouldn't blame the children, is their parents that you have to choose better. And if the parents are not saying anything to their little darling s, i would if they it was happening in my house. They're in my house, I make the rules. No going upstairs, no access to fridge, no jumping on sofas/ beds, etc. And I would say that out loud in front for their parents so they are informed of the house rules and if the kids don't listen, their parents know why they're not allowed in the house.

So disrespectful 😒

I have had a couple of difficult play dates, we can’t afford to replace the things we have bought (appreciate we have kids and the stuff won’t last that long). So I just meet at parks / somewhere neutral to keep it easy. Most kids need a good run about anyway. If I know they’re ok they’re welcome over.

I do feel parenting has slipped a bit, I just think parents have such busy lives it’s hard for many. I would never allow mine to do this, they’d be frogmarched home with me profusely apologising whilst leaving.

YANBU thinking this behaviour is terrible - you’re unreasonable thinking it’s unusual.

According to some posts on here where according to a certain contingent of posters a child must never ever be made to feel like something they do is wrong, or their fault, or that they should apologise for something they’ve done that’s upset someone or broken something if it’s an accident.

I do agree with pp it’s because parents don’t know how to discipline their kids. I can tell you I would have bundled my kids up and taken them home with many apologies had they done even one of those things.

Yep gentle/woke parenting where kids are taught they are the most important and have never heard the word no.

my eldest are adults/teenagers now but I remember following Gina Fords baby books which today are classed as completely unacceptable parenting, akin to abuse. Disciplining a child is frowned down upon because naughty behaviour is just them expressing emotions and they should be listened to.

I work in a secondary school and over the last 10years I’ve watched as behaviour has gone completely downhill, accelerated by lockdowns and too much time at home with zero boundaries. I worry for the future generations I really do.

Is that a sarcastic tone I sense

This attitude is part of the problem.

The OP never said her kids would be perfect but the behaviour she describes is completely unacceptable. If you’re taking offence because this is how your children behave and because it highlights the lack of discipline you demonstrate in your home and the disrespect for other people’s homes, then that’s your problem. It’s lazy parenting.

I run a sports club for children aged 4 to 12 and never come across this kind of behaviour. Kids are certainly better behaved now than when I was a child ( born in 1968)

Not normal. I have 5 DC and they most certainly are not feral, they definitely wouldn’t behave this way in someone else’s home at all. I’d be mortified if my DC did this, honestly so I can’t believe those parents aren’t. I wouldn’t be hosting at home again personally, arrange to meet at softplay or the park.

What were the parents doing throughout all this?
If any of my 5 had jumped on sofas, pulled cushions off I'd be taking them home.
We have a similar issue on our street recently, new family with a few children, the older ones are fine, youngest is 4 and has taken to just walking into the neighbors house and helping herself, to toys to food even to makeup left in an upstairs bedroom!
Parents are inside their own house have left it to the older siblings.
They treat everybody's gardens as their own, never take their rubbish in with them and I'm Just so glad the summer holidays are nearly over.
My nearly 3 year old wants to know why she can't pick flowers from someone else's garden when the other kids just help themselves.

Your not being unreasonable... I work in a shop and some kids are feral... my kids aren’t perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they know how to behave indoors and outdoors. I give them the look and they know instantly to stop what they are doing. How some of these kids behave nowadays my parents would have killed me and my brother if we acted the same way, back in the old days. There’s blurred lines nowadays about what’s acceptable kids behaviour and what’s not...

I don't think it's right but I do think it's common. A lot of parents I see are terrible at moderating or even monitoring their children's behaviour. It drives me fecking nuts. I take my children to their dance classes at a local gym club and the parents there are so selfish and don't give any care for their kids doing cartwheels through the cafeteria while the staff try to deliver plates of hot food to the tables. They park however they want making it ridiculously hard to access the club, they ignore the requested one-way system that's designed to help people leave and arrive safely but instead forcing everyone to queue down the road as they try to get in. They litter everywhere. Their kids steal from the changing rooms and try to smash stuff up. Outside the toddlers throw stones around despite the signs asking them not to touch the stones (which are part of the soak away). Ugh. It's not the kids fault. It's all on the parents.

I think you need to get some courage and assert yourself in your own home.

I don’t think it’s normal. Just spent time in France, where loads of families dined out late with their kids. I didn’t see a single instance of bad behaviour - it was noticeably different to the UK.

Good idea about taking play dates outside to playgrounds/parks etc. One point- kids tends to get naughty/destructive/hyper when they are bored.. had you set up activity for the older kids to do?(or asked parent visitor to bring something) If they are engrossed in an fun age-suitable activity they are less likely to ‘make their own fun’ which might be more boisterous or intrusive than you like.

I'm also in NI, through my kids are all adults now.

We had our share of misbehaving little sh!ts! Also had my three in my 30s, 3rd child I was 40.

I soon learned who to avoid having in my house, and often they were the children of parents whom you wouldn't have expected it from!

Birthday parties are best away from the house, and playdates are best limited to a couple of children, so they are containable!

As kids we would have literally been murdered for such behaviour, though a local family who used to come to our family business, were lethal!! They ran unfettered through our house; they jumped on the roof of their mother's car - and all that happened was, she said, "don't do that darling"!!! So, it's not entirely new behaviour!

Look at how parents react to kids poor behaviour, and choose your friends based on that.
I have a close friend who has the same type of parenting style I do. It works well. Neither of us accept nonsense.