To be shocked at how many of today's children behave?

[PlutoCritter]

Let me start by saying i'm in my early 30s and I definitely don't come from a "children are seen and not heard"/military-family type background where children weren't allowed to speak. my parents were quite laid back in some ways. however:

we've had our first child and this year i've started to make my first mum friends. (no dads, it's very traditional around here, all either SAHMs or part-time working mums as the primary carer, in a new fairly middle class area which we've only been living in for the last year or so, so don't have strong social networks yet.)

I've only really started to host "play dates" in the last few months and very often the baby's parents bring older DC along,which I thought was great!

So it's 2x babies plus (say) a 4 year old and a 5 year old. or a couple of 3 year olds plus a 7 year old. most recently, a 5 and a 6 year old with 2 babies visited.

and JESUS CHRIST, the average bahaviour is feral!

Most have been jumping on the sofa (to the point I thought it was going to break springs and had to tell them to calm it down myself eventually), one child going into our bedroom and looking through the wardrobe (!!) when going to the bathroom, one was repeatedly sneaking into the kitchen where i was making lunch and stealing stuff from the fridge 10 minutes before i was due to serve it, lunch just smashed up into a ball of mess and not eaten by older kids (5-7 years) regularly. Getting up halfway through a meal to run off and play with toys at age 8. Constant whining for snacks and sugar drinks. One refused to drink anything at all during a 2hr visit because we only had milk or water (i literally had no juice in the house to offer). Stealing food from other people's plates. Constantly interrupting adults having a chat - not while being ignored, just as the normal way of communicating. Ramming metal car toys into the wall so the wallpaper is scratched and the plaster has dents in it in the living room.

A few days ago, one little "darling" decided it would be funny to remove all the sofa cushions and drag them into the dining room so no one could sit down until it was all fixed as we helped the littler DC take shoes and coats off, then the %/6 (ish) child stood giggling while the adults just sorted it. if i'd done that as a kid as a guest my mum would have brought the wrath of god down on me there and then!

I genuinely don't believe a lot of this would have been accepted when I was a kid, and the first couple of play dates, i thought we'd just met a couple of bad apples, but it's now 5-6 visits with 3 different families. i'm not happy to accept further playdates at home if it's going to be like this and people think it's normal. DH is the same, he's been shocked at the state of the house when people have left and on the times he's been here, he's sick of people not telling their kids how to behave as a guest and feels similarly uncomfortable at e.g. having to intervene when a child has been doing something dangerous or damaing while the parent sits and ignores it.

please tell me this isn't normal????

(let me be clear, the kids seem perfectly NICE as children, and they play nicely, e.g. sharing toys, it's just the general disrespect for adults or breaking things that i am finding absolutely shocking.)

Over the last 10 years, I’ve had a whole houseful of primary ages, across the years. Lots of play dates, Halloween parties etc… so I’d say between 1 guest and 20, and as friendship groups change probably 40 ish different children. Supervised and unsupervised.

I gave never had a child go into my fridge, or remove sofa cushions, or damage wallpaper.

There is a small minority of children we know who are just awful. Unpleasant, unkind to others, rude. We no longer socialise with them as a family. We will organise dinners with babysitters. We like the parents and I’m not going to lose friendships over it but I’m also not going to expose my kids to their behaviour or I’m basically condoning them being bullied. Hopefully these kids turn out ok but given they swear at their parents I doubt it.

I also have no qualms telling kids not to jump on my furniture and have done so in the past. I’d be mortified if my kids ever did that.

It sounds extreme. I would be mortified if my kids behaved that way. Maybe outdoor venues in school hols. Obviously term time older ones will be a school.

You are not being unreasonable at all. We have had the same here. I have a 2 and a 4 year old and have tried to be as sociable as possible but it is extremely difficult when children aren’t being told that their behaviour is unacceptable. I have found that I’ve become friends with the mums but can’t tolerate how the children behave. We had one round for example when it was my daughters birthday who was the same, kept asking for more food and drinks even though we had served food which hadn’t been eaten. When it came to cake the cake was literally squished in between the fingers and not eaten. Drinks were spilt, toys were broke. The state of my childrens room afterwards was a thing of nightmares. Constantly interrupting when I was trying to chat to the mum but then the mum would stop our conversation to entertain it. So no, you are definitely not being unreasonable because it does happen and appears to happen more often than not!

I wouldn't tolerate that behaviour from my 3 year old, let alone the older one.

I do note though OP that I've also found that lots of parents do not actually tell their children off or impose consequences that I can see these days. A 5 year old friend of my eldest jumped on the sofa and his mother said nothing. When I told him not to he looked bemused!

It's where the world has gone mad about conforming to the baby trends of 'gentle parenting' and 'relaxed parenting' which have been taken waayyy toooo far !

Lots of (lazy) parents think it's better for the little darlings to 'express' themselves than to discipline them !

It's like if someone took the 'regimented' baby trends from 1940 and stuck to it 'rigidly', then it ended up being nothing short of abuse...

YANBU. I couldn’t agree more. Instilling discipline and good manners in children in tough and many parents give up as it’s easier but if they love their children they shouldn’t give up.

No wonder why society is deteriorating as such a rapid pace with people making so poor life choices, impulsive decisions and becoming a burden for society.

I've said this before and often get shot down when I do.
"

You learn a lot about how you do not want to parent by watching other people's kids."

Its ok to have rules for your children others do not have.
Its ok to have rules in your home and reinforce them.
The kids quickly learn.

If the parents are of the "you can't say no to my child"
tell then.
"Please make them stop x we do not permit that in our house."
Make it their issue to deal with and their inconvenience "

Not normal at all. I have a new baby. My mum friends wouldn't let their children act in that manner. Not even the SEN ones.

Sorry but where were the parents when all this was happening?

If you haven’t inculcated respect for you as parents and decent behaviour from the off god help you when they are teens.

Mines only just 2 so I keep hoping when she has more comprehension it will get easier but I just cannot reason with her or get her to follow boundaries.

You don't reason with children until much, much older (probably 5+) and trying to is part of your issue!!

You don't get toddlers to "follow" boundaries either, you impose boundaries by making an expectation clear, then having consistent consequences if they break the rules. The consequences need to be quite immediate and needs to be things they care about - so its not enough to just say "don't jump on that sofa please" as a toddler could not care less.

Things that can work:

• screen bans
• removal of favourite toys
• naughty step etc

I think a lot of people these days expect to be able to manage toddlers without making them cry and think consequences that result in tears are a step too far. A lot of the time, if they don't burst into tears when you follow through with your consequences, they probably either don't understand them or more likely don't care - thus they don't learn that there's a negative outcome to the original bad behaviour and they will happily repeat it.

I see a lot of people distracting older toddlers/children with different toys if they are misbehaving and I don't think this helps. This is an effective strategy for younger babies who simply can't connect cause and effect, but if you continue doing it with older toddlers/children it can just reinforce bad behaviour as they get given a fun different toy every time they misbehave!!

We put ours in the porch for 4 minutes for the worst crimes (hitting and biting others). Nicked from my friend. Remove small child immediately from the fun and no attention. They quickly got the message. Dd2 used to whisper “E needs to go in the porch” when she saw other kids being vile !

MsTswift

We did this too it works really well.

I have happy well balanced teens I get on great with - with no long term porch phobia 😁

@InChocolateWeTrust great post. I find it incomprehensible that parents don't get this and are trying to verbally ‘reason’ with a 2 year old.

Those ghastly parents who try to explain to their obnoxious child why it should do this or that are to blame and they are certainly storing up trouble for themselves. Children should NOT be the decision makers.

Well, when me and my DM went to a local park (local outing) - we saw 2 sets of mums/kids chasing ducks/birds and we told one off as his parent wasn't doing it (the disciplining). Got a load of abuse off the mum (who did look a bit embarrassed) but basically we were made to feel as if we were the bad guys for telling a brat off.

I sort of wish I hadn't posted on this thread now. I do think kids should be told off but I don't think the world is going to hell in a handcart.

I don't think the only way to impose boundaries is by having consistent 'consequences' either. I think there are lots of different techniques appropriate for different situations and different kids too. The distraction thing, for example, is not setting a bad example necessarily - it might be creating an environment where it's easier for the kid to behave properly. I also think encouraging kids to TELL you what the problem is is great training for future assertiveness. Obviously they have to accept it if they can't jump on the sofa but engaging with them is as valid (and what I would choose) as going straight to a 'consequence' or punishment.

I agree with @InChocolateWeTrust and I'd also add - sometimes you just have to bloody pick them up and get them out of the room/into a pram/out of Tesco or whatever else, and physically stop them. I am generally quite a gentle parent - I'm one of those people that get eye rolled because I say things like "I'm going to pick you up now" to my pre-verbal baby - but I say "No" when I need to, and if they ignore that no once they're at an age to understand it, I remove them. Not rocket science surely?

Often these parents are coming around to get a break from their kids, to get a break from providing endless snacks, telling them off, and tidying up after them. They are passing all this work and responsibly on, so the host has to deal with it, or quietly seethe.

On the topic of 'gentle parenting':

I used to run a Forest School in partnership with our local First School - so, 4 year olds. The children came every week for a term, and before we welcomed them to FS, we would visit the school for a meeting with the parents where we explained the philosophy/aims/practicalities etc of FS. They were given lots of verbal and printed info. One non-negotiable was that the children must always have legs and arms covered, even in summer, because of scratchy things and nettles. We explained this carefully.

One week a child arrived with a vest top on, and before we set off for the FS, I spoke to the mum about this...and she told me that the girl didn't want to wear a sleeved top today and had chosen her vest top. We had to break the news to mum and child that she wasn't going to join the FS unless she wore the right clothes. We had spare clothing available, so all was well, but clearly they had never encountered 'rules' before, or the concept that something wasn't just up to the child's whim.

And no, there were no ND or SEN issues - we checked.

I think this is a natural consequence of the push towards ‘gentle parenting’ … I’m not saying that this is what gentle parenting is (it’s absolutely not, it should be full of rigidity and boundaries) but tons of people seem to interpret it as ‘oh darling please don’t’.

we visited some old friends recently at their house. They cooked some beautiful food that their own kids didn’t touch (ours wolfed it down), their kids had three ice lollies (helped themselves) and ice cream. Later another delicious meal was provided, my kids ate, theirs refused. Kids under the table, screaming about eating, running around. The kids are 3 and 6, yet are ruling the roost. My own kids (who can be fairly demonic in their own right) were just watching in bewilderment.

Oh and I had a bunch of 8 year olds round a few months ago for a birthday party. My inner fish wife came out when I had to tell a child ‘will you get out of my flowerbed’ as he decided to plough through it (and over a patio wall) instead of walking round.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I don't think willingness to eat food should be used to judge whether a child is well-behaved or not. It sounds like the parents were lax on treats and discipline, but imo food should be offered to children who can choose whether or not to eat it and how much, and then it should be taken away without comment. Children should sit politely at table whether or not they want to eat the food offered. I wouldn't judge a child as being badly behaved for refusing food unless they then started whining for more pudding or 'snacks'. It's entirely their choice whether to eat it or not - they just need to be taught to exercise their choices politely.

I entirely agree!