To be shocked at how many of today's children behave?

[PlutoCritter]

Let me start by saying i'm in my early 30s and I definitely don't come from a "children are seen and not heard"/military-family type background where children weren't allowed to speak. my parents were quite laid back in some ways. however:

we've had our first child and this year i've started to make my first mum friends. (no dads, it's very traditional around here, all either SAHMs or part-time working mums as the primary carer, in a new fairly middle class area which we've only been living in for the last year or so, so don't have strong social networks yet.)

I've only really started to host "play dates" in the last few months and very often the baby's parents bring older DC along,which I thought was great!

So it's 2x babies plus (say) a 4 year old and a 5 year old. or a couple of 3 year olds plus a 7 year old. most recently, a 5 and a 6 year old with 2 babies visited.

and JESUS CHRIST, the average bahaviour is feral!

Most have been jumping on the sofa (to the point I thought it was going to break springs and had to tell them to calm it down myself eventually), one child going into our bedroom and looking through the wardrobe (!!) when going to the bathroom, one was repeatedly sneaking into the kitchen where i was making lunch and stealing stuff from the fridge 10 minutes before i was due to serve it, lunch just smashed up into a ball of mess and not eaten by older kids (5-7 years) regularly. Getting up halfway through a meal to run off and play with toys at age 8. Constant whining for snacks and sugar drinks. One refused to drink anything at all during a 2hr visit because we only had milk or water (i literally had no juice in the house to offer). Stealing food from other people's plates. Constantly interrupting adults having a chat - not while being ignored, just as the normal way of communicating. Ramming metal car toys into the wall so the wallpaper is scratched and the plaster has dents in it in the living room.

A few days ago, one little "darling" decided it would be funny to remove all the sofa cushions and drag them into the dining room so no one could sit down until it was all fixed as we helped the littler DC take shoes and coats off, then the %/6 (ish) child stood giggling while the adults just sorted it. if i'd done that as a kid as a guest my mum would have brought the wrath of god down on me there and then!

I genuinely don't believe a lot of this would have been accepted when I was a kid, and the first couple of play dates, i thought we'd just met a couple of bad apples, but it's now 5-6 visits with 3 different families. i'm not happy to accept further playdates at home if it's going to be like this and people think it's normal. DH is the same, he's been shocked at the state of the house when people have left and on the times he's been here, he's sick of people not telling their kids how to behave as a guest and feels similarly uncomfortable at e.g. having to intervene when a child has been doing something dangerous or damaing while the parent sits and ignores it.

please tell me this isn't normal????

(let me be clear, the kids seem perfectly NICE as children, and they play nicely, e.g. sharing toys, it's just the general disrespect for adults or breaking things that i am finding absolutely shocking.)

Not normal. Mine would never dream of acting like that, and if she did we'd be out of there. I know one set of parents this might happen with, but we avoid them because of that.

The only thing I think you're unreasonable about is the child who didn't want to drink water or milk. In my opinion it's fine to not drink for 2 hours and some kids are fussy. Apart from that, none of it is acceptable.

Part of the issue nowadays I suspect is that fear and awe of adults plays much less of a part in parenting. So rather than assuming that they'll get into trouble and so making themselves as unobtrusive as possible, children do just go ahead and do what they want to unless specifically told not to because they're not afraid of being a nuisance or being shouted at.

And no one is allowed to tell them off other than their parents. Woe betide anyone who tries.

It’s called “Gentle Parenting”.

It’s definitely not for me, but I’ve seen several posters on MN stating quite adamantly that gentle parenting has been given a bad name by being woefully misrepresented and given a bad name by irresponsible parents who misunderstand the concept and think it works by simply giving no guidance and discipline. I don’t know the ins and outs of it - but from what I can tell, ‘gentle parents’ who let their kids run riot, drawing on walls and climbing on other people’s furniture are doing it wrong.

Yanbu there are so many feral, unruly kids now. Parents would rather talk it through or have a chat rather than actually discipline their kids. Wishy washy parenting.

Teenagers too acting like entitled twats allowed to do what they want when they want.

I did speak sharply to a child in the park who was chasing ducks. His mother looked a bit embarrassed.

Mine wouldn't have done this but at 4 I wouldn't have expected them to sit quietly in someone's house while I had a chat and entertained a baby for hours on end. Meeting up with friends when they were say 1 & 4 would be outside or maybe a trip to a museum or something where they could be entertained and then followed by a sit outside for grownups while they ran about.

They're beautifully behaved now in company!

There's a reason pre school settings do VERY short bursts of activity.

You really have to avoid conflicts like that when they're small (which is a matter of judgement for parents ofc). Maybe there's also a pandemic factor- they are a bit undersocialised and not used to behaving in company?

This is the reason I stopped having play dates and birthdays parties years ago.
When my child started Nursery and school later we invited her friend for play dates only to see our house getting thrashed in front of our eyes!
One child literally stepped on my child’s toys I just got her, completely damaging the head ( unicorn ) it broke.
Another time her other friend broke our flower plants in the garden by kicking them constantly and his mum just laughed it off- Kids Eh?
so no, no more parties or play dates.

I feel so sorry for the teachers of these spoiled brats and the disruption they cause to the whole class with no backup whatsoever from the useless parents.

I was gobsmacked in Tesco one day to witness an exchange between a frail looking elderly man, a boy of about 4 or 5 and his mother.
The little boy was running about all over the place and crashed into the man, nearly knocking him over. The man told him to be careful as someone could get hurt and for some strange reason the boy's mum took offence to this and told the boy loudly that no-one had any right to tell him off and he hadn't done anything wrong!
The poor man was shocked enough by the boy running into him and even more by the mothers reaction. I really dread to think how that child is going to be as a teenager.

Absolutely. What the PP described is permissive parenting aka gentle parenting gone wrong. Boundaries are extremely important in gentle parenting done correctly!

I know a lot of kids who have been gently parented correctly and they are all absolutely delightful. Generally mature, empathetic, respectful, and understand their own and other’s emotions well, as emotion coaching/emotional intelligence is a big part of it.

But when my oldest was little I was on a few gentle parenting FB groups and you saw so much of the permissive stuff, and people giving out really awful advice which encouraged the sort of behaviour described on this thread. I’ve only once seen it in real life but seems to be common elsewhere from what MN says…

my dd once joined in in jumping on a bed and they broke some slats and NO i did not offer to pay toward the damage ... these 2 siblings were brought up in what we now call "gentle parenting" so they'd be asked why they were jumping and why wasnt it a good idea etc ... and had no respect for anything at all lol.
if you let your kids stand on the back of your sofas then you cant complain when another child joins in and something gets ruined.
Which means i agree with you op. some children arent given boundaries

I feel so sorry for the teachers of these spoiled brats and the disruption they cause to the whole class with no backup whatsoever from the useless parents.

Don’t feel sorry for the staff - it’s unfortunately part and parcel of the job now, we’re accepting of it being part of the job and have ways to deal with it. But it does take time and energy away from teaching and learning.
Feel sorry for the children who do behave, want to learn, but their learning is interrupted and somewhat hindered because selfish and inefficient parents don’t do their job properly (not including parents who try their hardest with difficult behaviour because of SEND, obviously. That’s a separate issue - and again, if some parents weren’t so lax with parenting their NT children, more energy could be spent on supporting those who need genuine behaviour support due to SEND).

YANBU. It’s poor parenting. I blame ‘child led’ parenting advice over the last few decades. People misinterpret ‘child-led’ as letting children do what they want. What it really means is that children should be able to find their own way within very tight boundaries set by their carers. Many don’t bother with the boundaries bit but still think they’re allowing their children to thrive. Unfortunately it creates bratty entitled behaviour in children and worse when they are teenagers. I feel sorry for teachers having to deal with them and their dumb parents.

Little GITS.. afraid it's not a new thing though, I had it when my eldest kids were young.
I used to wonder if it was the mums' jealousy or something, you know? I didn't have a big flash house but I DID like to keep it nice, & you'd sometimes see a smirk.. Nope. Knocked it on the head donkeys' years ago. :-(

Not normal.
I'm shocked that would happen in a middle class area where most mums are SAHP or work part- time.
My 6 yo would be taken straight home if he behaved like this (and he is a poor neglected city child whose parents both work) 🤨

Don’t believe those saying “just wait until yours is a toddler/preschooler and you’ll eat your words” brigade. It is perfectly possible to have well behaved children.

I also find this shite parenting massively classist and discriminatory. Little Arabella and Ptolemy can get away with behaviour that if it came from Jaxon and Delilah-Mae would have people slagging off the lower classes until the cows come home.

I also find this shite parenting massively classist and discriminatory. Little Arabella and Ptolemy can get away with behaviour that if it came from Jaxon and Delilah-Mae would have people slagging off the lower classes until the cows come home

It's also discriminatory in terms of its long-term consequences as well. Because children who are too well-behaved and who are never allowed to push the boundaries tend not to do so well later on in life. So if parents are parenting too punitively because they're afraid of how other people will view them and their children, and as a result have compliant, unconfident children that "you can take anywhere", then that can also be an issue later on in life. Like all things, there's a balance to be struck.

If we're stuck indoors because of bad weather, I don't really mind if the kids build dens with the sofa cushions and do some jumping off the sofa etc. I live in a small house and they need to let off steam. Same applies to the bed. I only have a cheap sofa and bed and will invest in a nice one when they're older.
Most of my friends have a similar style of parenting and that's probably why we stick together. I doubt I'd bother with play dates where there were super strict rules, I'd find it too stressful.
Obviously, drawing on walls is a big no, but cars smashing into walls - I might not spot that (I'd correct it if I saw it) Interrupting parents - well that depends on their age. I do feel like I talk an awful lot and occasionally they just really need to tell me something, so, making them wait whilst I jabber on seems unfair.
The things you've mentioned don't sound too bad to me overall.. Punching/scratching/biting, not sharing, being really rude, repeatedly ignoring me etc these are things that are more likely to upset me but even still I accept that children do these things.
My children have been massive dicks on play dates before and I've been really quite embarrassed and apologetic afterwards but we've still been invited back for further playdates.

That’s normal behaviour around here and it’s the reason I dread play dates. It wouldn’t have been normal in my day and I would never let my children behave like that (tbh I can’t imagine it would occur to them to behave like that anyway).

I honestly don’t understand what’s wrong with the parents of these feral children…

That isn't normal behaviour at all, but can I just ask was there any suitable toys/activities for the older children? I am not excusing the behaviour, not at all, but they weren't guests in the traditional sense they were quite young children who were brought by their parents to play in your house, and if they play roughly at home they will do it on playdates. I wouldn't put up with it mind, it would be parks all the way.

Interrupting I tolerate just the once only. especially if the child is just 5. Then we have ‘the talk’

The rest of it - fuck that shit!

I see permissive parents and hate it - but I also see really strict parents and think wtf!

Neither approach works from what I can see! (Older kids here).

“Because children who are too well-behaved and who are never allowed to push the boundaries tend not to do so well later on in life.”

Wow. What absolute horse shit.

You are not be unreasonable at all!!!

The behaviour (ie kids being mischievous and a little naughty) I think is normal as they all have their moments… the lack of parenting and direction is absolutely not! I have a friend whose child treated my house exactly the same as yours - hung of my curtains like a cat, drew on my walls, chucked a shoe at the tv amongst other things. I asked them to leave. I have a child myself and although I can say they have never behaved in this way (maybe I’m lucky), if they even dared treat their own house that way, let alone someone else’s I would put a immediate stop to it.

I think a lot of parents are just plain lazy to be honest and completely oblivious to the fact their little darlings are actually little shits!

I was reading another really old thread earlier and the amount of people saying that you should take the contents of your kitchen cupboards to feed other peoples children at the park, instead of the parent of said kids telling them not to pester for other peoples food, is astounding - but that’s a whole other topic 😂😂

This is not normal behaviour.

“Because children who are too well-behaved and who are never allowed to push the boundaries tend not to do so well later on in life.”

Not convinced this is accurate - but say it was, those children will still do a lot than the children who have been taught that they go through life doing what they want, when they want. Their bubble gets dramatically shattered when they actually have someone else other than indulging mummy and daddy to answer to, and that they are not that special and allowances won’t be made for their shit behaviour.
This is why I feel very sorry for those children, annoying as they can be. They are in no way prepared for the real world. Kids and teens who are raised this way don’t really mature and grow up properly. They just remain big entitled babies, and that’s not going to find them any real happiness or fulfilment in life.