Re children in restaurant

[Arbesque]

Four of us booked a table in an expensive restaurant last night for 7.30.
About 10 minutes after we'd sat down a couple came in pushing a buggy and with 2 other children in tow. They were seated at the table beside us.
One child kept bashing his spoon off the table, another kept crawling along the wide windowsill so that he was right behind my head, and the baby was kept amused by the father playing peek a boo while she screamed excitedly. This went on and on.

We asked to be moved to another table. There were none available.Then the baby started crying loudly and the toddler got tired and cranky and joined the wailing.

We left without dessert and complained on the way out. They knocked the price of a bottle of wine off our bill.

AIBU to think expensive restaurants, charging a fortune, should have a policy for dealing with situations like this?

We paid a lot of money for a meal we couldn't enjoy.

I would have gone with couldn't care less.

Its in the restaurants policy to allow children. Dont like it? Go elsewhere or stay home

Hopefully it's lesson learned OP

So if a restaurant allows children the parents can let them do what they like, and tough on the other diners?
Nice.

I clearly said nothing of the sort!
You asked (I think?!?) what the restaurant should do about these situations. I'm saying nothing, it's your choice to go there and hopefully you wont go again as you know what to expect

Apologies, I misunderstood your post.

Love it, @Theblacksheepandme ! She sounds fab, as do you!

I am decompressing after the most horrible train journey - surrounded by 2 “scruffy” families, one with appalling BO and the family practice of sitting apart in various places in the carriage and carrying on shouted conversations across the heads of the rest of us.

The other was more distressing for everyone I think - a mother and son who were just at odds with each other for the whole 2 and a half hours. The boy was about 8 or 9 I think and clearly distressed about something underneath his non-stop shouted demands, his yelling No in his mother’s face (repeatedly) and her threats to slap him. For pretty much the whole journey. The mother made no attempt to speak to her son as if he were a human being - she kept telling him to leave her alone so she could watch something on her phone.

It was more than just bad manners on both their parts obviously . But in between wanting to go over and tell both of them to grow up and behave, I reflected on this thread and the way this boy was making himself unpopular by annoying a whole train carriage of strangers. He wasn’t being helped to learn the skills of getting along in public and behaving so that people will be inclined to be nice to him.

Really sad to see how a lack of manners - which are basically consideration for others in shared public space - could become a real obstacle to him getting on in life.

I don't enjoying kids misbehaving in restaurants, while parents don't intervene/ignore the problem and the situation escalates.
I equally hate adults ordering bottles of wine and conversations and behaviour clearly going down the hill, annoying everyone around- in expensive restaurants too.
I also dislike the type of parent who decide in a restaurant/cafe to talk endendlessly in a very loud voice to their child to "model- parent" so everyone who can hear. I find it really annoying.

It's al about balance and common sense.

I expect you'll find yourself shown the door with that attitude.

Parents are entitled to a meal out even with their kids… it’s not always possible to keep them quiet!
You sound very stuck up!

You're not entitled to go wherever you want with your noisy kids. And restaurant aren't obliged to serve you. A restaurant isn't a public place. You are invited in. And you can just as easily be asked to leave if your kids can't behave and you can't control them.

As a mom of 2 young kids (a 4 month old and 20 month old), I don't think you're unreasonable. I know my kids may act up and would NEVER take them to an expensive restaurant. I don't want to hear my own kids cry, won't make others deal with it either.

What I am hoping happens is that restaurants who allow the feral families to take over will soon lose business from normal people who want a pleasant night not with or without better behaved children.
What is then likely to happen is that some restaurants will start to ban children or, in the case of a friend of mine, make their venues very unwelcome to anyone under 10 (think glass and hard surfaces, sharp corners and no room for buggies).

As an adult with no children and who doesn't tend to dine out with children I say bring it on.

However, I'm not a big enough bitch (nearly, but not quite) to then not feel for the majority of parents who teach their children to be well behaved and civilised whilst in private premises.

Do you allow him to go up to other diners and run around the restaurant?

@thesurrealist I hope so but the businesses I know whose owners have tried this have been set upon on social media for daring to ban children - they were determined to shame them as publicly as possible despite being able to take their children basically anywhere else except nightclubs. it’s a real shame because it makes business owners worried about prioritising paying adults.

I don’t think anyone is saying “children should be seen and not heard”, @FatEaredFuck. They are saying that it is not reasonable to let your children run around a restaurant - because it is not safe for them, for the staff caring hot food who they might trip up, and anyone on the receiving end of a cascade of hot drinks or food if the staff do get tripped up.

They are saying that it is not reasonable for you to let your children go and bother other diners - chatting to them, climbing around behind them, trying to touch their food or belongings.

They are saying that there is a normal level of noise in a restaurant, and it is not reasonable to let your children make a lot more noise than that. If your child is shrieking so loudly at your table that I can’t hear the conversation at my table, then they are too loud, and you, as the parent, need to do some parenting and get them to quieten down a bit. And yes, I think that applies to adults too - if I felt someone at my table was being too loud for the restaurant we were in, I would ask them to be a bit quieter, and if there was a really disruptive adult or group of adults, spoiling the atmosphere for everyone, I would expect the management to deal with it - ask them to keep it down a bit, and if they didn’t, ask them to leave.

Basically I think there is a standard of behaviour expected anywhere - not the same standard, of course - and people should do their best to fit in with the expected behaviour wherever they find themselves. So I’d have no problem with people shouting and whooping on the terraces at a football match, but would expect them to stay quiet during play at a tennis match or chess tournament. I’d expect more noise and chaos in McDonalds or Pizza Express than in Le Manoir Aux Quat’ Saisons.

Of course children aren’t born knowing how to behave in different places - no-one is saying they are - but what people are saying is that it is the job of parents to teach their children how to behave in different places. The parents in the OP were not bothering to do this.

There are plenty of loud noisy patrons of all ages.

And?
That doesn’t make it OK. Why do you think it is OK to behave badly or allow anyone you are with to behave badly in public @FatEaredFuck? Why are you so lacking in social awareness?

You sound very stuck up!

Of course she doesn’t @Victoriaplum81. Why do your needs trump hers? You sound oblivious to what is considered appropriate behaviour.

Seems the OP has reading comprehension issues herself, dressed up as "I misunderstood"

The word doesn't revolve around your DC disturbing others

This

This is what I hate, the bullying parents who slag off businesses on social media who don't welcome children with open arms because of the rude and inconsiderate behaviour of a significant minority. These tyrants don't care if they do huge damage to people's livelihoods as long as they get to stand on their soapbox and insist their kids should be allowed to roam wild and free and not be constrained in anyway.

It's awful and intimidating behavior. No doubt these people make all kinds of anti bullying statements seeing no hypocrisy in their actions.

Nope. Given the number of posts that Saif if the restaurant accepts kids you have to accept lots of noise and chaos I assumed that poster was saying the same. When she further clarified I apologised for misunderstanding. Not a lack of comprehension skills, a genuine misinterpretation of a post that could be read 2 ways.

Really sad to see how a lack of manners - which are basically consideration for others in shared public space - could become a real obstacle to him getting on in life

Yes, this is about an appalling lack of manners as well as poor parenting.

Not MY children as I wouldn’t have taken them to a nice restaurant at that young age HTH

I understand your frustration! I had the same thing occur. The kids screamed so loud. I got a headache. A manager didn't even speak to the parents. The parents were in their own little world ignoring the kids bad behavior. I finally went over & said; "I didn't pay a babysitter to watch my kids. So I could have a nice dinner to hear yours". They were shocked I said something, but left shortly afterwards. Multiple surrounding tables applauded my comment. Train your kids in good behavior at McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc... Their manners should be established once you invite them to fine dinning. It's your job as a parent to teach them! Every so often I do take mine out for a nice meal. If they act up, I immediately pull them to the bathroom to address the bad behavior. I never had it go further. However had it. We would've paid & gone home. It's called GOOD MANNERS, & others shouldnt have to put up with my kids tiredness or uprising!! No one should have to listen to other people's rowdy kids. Restaurants are NOT a Kindercare playground. Kids shouldn't run around, crawl over booths, or stick their dirty hands all over a restaurant. I can't tell you how many times 2 or more couples will eat with their kids in tow. The parents are talking to each other; oblivious to their kids bad behaviors. However, it's not surprising as we live in an overly entitled society. There will always be parents with rowdy, unbearable, unbehaved, poor mannered children.

I had 6 kids, so in all honesty, going to restaurants especially as a single mum, was not a common thing. Pretty much unheard of for me. My kids were also very active and inquisitive. So I think that very expensive restaurants would be the most unlikely to atrack parents with kids, but some parents still want to do that, so maybe those restaurants should have a separate area to cater for families with kids so the adult-only customers (it doesn't matter if they are parents themselves or not, and even if they are they have chosen to get a well deserved "adult time" break) can have a restful meal.

So, as a parent, do I think I was "entitled" to impose my kids on anybody, especially in a very expensive restaurant? NO WAY!! Would I have ever been able to go to a restaurant without my kids and enjoy myself? NO WAY!! So I chose, whenever I could afford it, to go to children-friendly/oriented places. Even if I had had the money, I would've done that. I enjoy all sorts of foods anyway and I am decidedly "socially awckard" anyway because I am autistic, so I don't really go to restaurants for "adults" anyway. Especially very expensive restaurants with a high expectation etiquette. I don't think that you are wrong in feeling like you do.

The voting on this this thread is very interesting, showing a number of people do disagree with OP. Maybe not about children not behaving in restaurants but that she doesn't get to set the rules in the restaurant. But anytime this is voiced a few jump on including OP and attack, they're dreadful parents etc.

I also note that the behaviour of the children went from noisy and crawling along a widow sill to being at OPs table. Which maybe should've been mentioned in the OP?