Re children in restaurant

[Arbesque]

Four of us booked a table in an expensive restaurant last night for 7.30.
About 10 minutes after we'd sat down a couple came in pushing a buggy and with 2 other children in tow. They were seated at the table beside us.
One child kept bashing his spoon off the table, another kept crawling along the wide windowsill so that he was right behind my head, and the baby was kept amused by the father playing peek a boo while she screamed excitedly. This went on and on.

We asked to be moved to another table. There were none available.Then the baby started crying loudly and the toddler got tired and cranky and joined the wailing.

We left without dessert and complained on the way out. They knocked the price of a bottle of wine off our bill.

AIBU to think expensive restaurants, charging a fortune, should have a policy for dealing with situations like this?

We paid a lot of money for a meal we couldn't enjoy.

Even in Italy and Spain, etc, loudly crying babies and toddlers would be soothed and carried (often by staff!), not left to cry. And there are certainly restaurants and times where tired, crying, cranky children would not be welcomed.

OP, I also think that 7.30 is early for dinner if you want to avoid children. Try a booking at 8.30 or 9. And I don't know what you consider 'expensive'. I find my local curry place expensive, but it's full of families and relaxed and none of that behaviour (bar extended crying) would have been unexpected or a problem.

But yes, I do agree that the UK is not Italy and parents do need to read the room. And for those unwilling or unable to see that their children are ruining the dining experience for others, the restaurant should have a plan.

YANBU - 7.30 is quite late for toddlers and babies to be at a restaurant isn't it? I'd assume by booking that time you might have the odd child with family, but not babies.

The bit that would have annoyed me is the child crawling along the windowsill until they're behind your head - that's ridiculous and they shouldn't have let him, it's quite disruptive.

Sitting next to loud and wailing children isn't everyone's idea of a lovely Sunday meal, it definitely isn't mine personally - I'd hope that by picking somewhere and booking that late that I'd avoid the larger family meals!

It think people in Mediterranean are less bothered by busy and noisy atmosphere during meal times.

Depends on the type of restaurant. Neighbourhood family cheap and cheerful places, yes. But I’ve been to serious foodie expensive restaurants across Europe and children are not present in that way at peak adult dinner times.

It sounds as though the family seated next to @Arbesque were impinging on her quiet enjoyment - a baby crawling behind your head can’t be comfortable! And spoon banging and crying are really annoying in an adult space.

It also sounds as though the parents did little to think of fellow guests. Babies crying have a note in them that adults tend to hear and instinctively respond to - it’s a survival thing. But especially in an expensive restaurant, parents need to realise that there are others around who don’t deserve to have that noise imposed upon them.

I have never eaten at a restaurant in Italy or Spain where children were allowed to bang the table with cutlery or run around the room or annoy other diners. They expectation is that they sit at the table, enjoy their food, and make conversation with the adults around them. That’s why they’re accommodated, because they’re taught how to behave properly when out.

Just come back from a holiday in Morocco and they loved kids in restaurants. Very accommodating and children were seen as a delight - it was really refreshing. DD is generally well behaved, can be a little loud but doesn't scream or run about so maybe it would have been different.

I get that it could be annoying if you've come out for a nice sophisticated adults evening, but it's just one of those things!

Two points.
The UK is different to Spain/Italy/ Greece etc.. so what? It’s ok for us to have a different culture, different Countries have different cultures/ expectations why is that bad??
Why would parents of young kids pay to go to an expensive restaurant at that time of the evening? They spent the whole time trying to pander to their kids and entertaining them. They can’t have had time to appreciate an expensive meal surely?

Yanbu OP, I’m a mum of 3 but when mine were that age I wouldn’t attempt evening meals in smart restaurants, not fair on the kids or other diners. It’s such entitled behaviour.

I'd be irritated by this, too, op. It's really not rocket science - kids should be in bed at that time of night.

I probably would have complained in your situation, and the more people who do, the more chance there is of the restaurant introducing a child-free policy after a certain time of night. Ultimately, you're paying partially for food and partially for an experience, the latter of which was ruined, so I think you were right to raise the issue.

It think people in Mediterranean are less bothered by busy and noisy atmosphere during meal times.

sorry forgot to say that my post was in response to @Lovemypeaceandquiet and @Sunflowerkeep

Are you in a holiday destination? Different rules on holiday really. Restaurants aren't just fit child free adults. Couldn't get too worked up about it tbh. Everyone needs to eat.

I think children should be in restaurants, but I do find it really irritating when children are fractious and adults are not doing anything about it, or haven’t brought anything to amuse them - colouring, a book, a few small quiet toys etc.

7:30 isn’t too late; if we are child free I would generally make a later reservation to avoid the chance of loud kids on our only child free night.

How are kids expected to know how to behave in restaurants if they never get taken to one?
Well you don't teach them by leaping straight in to an expensive restaurant at 7:30pm and then letting them crawl around and annoy people.

By the time our DD was 6 then, yes, we could take her anywhere and know she would behave well. But we had to work up to that. When she was a toddler we would go to friendly Italian places at lunchtime. As she got a bit older we would try different places but if it was evening then we went early, 5 or 6pm. Certainly by 5 or 6 she could be trusted anywhere but we never let her annoy anyone.

We lived in a Mediterranean country for a while... Yes, children were welcomed in restaurants. But the owner would have no issue telling them off for misbehaviour. They were firmly directed to the outdoor play area. Then given a free ice cream.

7.30 is quite late for toddlers and babies to be at a restaurant isn't it?

According to what? It’s a very British mindset that children must be off to their bed as early as possible. There is no single right way of doing things.

We have a toddler and sometimes he is extremely well behaved in restaurants and other times he isn’t. We never know how he’s going to turn out until we get there. Perhaps it’s the same for these parents.

Also, a really nice expensive restaurant wouldn’t allow children in the first place so perhaps it’s not as high end as you think.

7:30 isn't early for dinner. If the OP was in a restaurant at 6pm you would have a point. It sounds like this family was particularly annoying and oblivious - I have no problem in general with children in restaurants, but if the parents know they can't behave then they should just stick to restaurants at lunchtime to teach their children how to behave in that kind of setting.

There's no way I'd have taken really small children to an expensive restaurant at that time of the evening. I'd have expected there to be older children but not babies and toddlers.

I actually think the parents were a bit entitled and selfish here.

If you'd have been in a family restaurant at lunchtime or late afternoon I'd have said wtf did you expect.

But 7.30 at an expensive restaurant. Who tales a baby there fgs

But it does seem these days that accepting the limitations a young family brings and planning your life accordingly is unreasonable. Apparently children should be everywhere and anywhere all the time regardless of tine of day or the suitability of the venue.

If there's a children's menu, expect children

😉

If it was really an inappropriate restaurant for children then I would expect them to either not allow children and/or have no children’s menu or appropriate offering for children (eg no high chairs available etc).

If it had these things then YABU in the sense that they’ve made a decision to cater to children.

I grew up in Spain and have several points:

• They eat out far more often, always with kids, but usually at much more casual bar/cafe/restaurant type places. Noise is expected. They aren't often going out to fine dining places and if they did the children would not come unless they could sit and be quiet.

• It's generally more common for kids to be out late than it is here.

• They have a lot more eating places with outside space where it's easier for kids to play without bothering anyone.

• This notion that people in the Mediterranean all adore kids is nonsense. My Spanish family are more intolerant of children than any English person I know and absolutely love that UK restaurants don't have them! Also, if any child caused a bother, noone I know in Spain would hesitate to shout at them even if not their parents.

Totally agree OP. I think you’re entitled to go out for a meal at 7.30pm especially in an expensive restaurant without your experience being ruined by children screaming, wailing and crashing cutlery. The fact is that for many people, loud screaming and crying from children can actually be very painful on the ears; who wants to eat and socialise in those circumstances? Entitled parents who think it’s OK to inflict their children on others in these situations are totally selfish in my opinion but I know many will disagree. Being refunded the cost of a bottle of wine is irrelevant; I would feel the same way if the entire meal was refunded. Your evening was ruined, that’s the point. Yes things may be different in some Mediterranean countries where it’s the norm for whole families to eat out later especially after avoiding the heat of the day, but that’s not the case here.

OP you are not unreasonable. This is all about entitlement and people who (whether children or stag/hen parties) don't care about other people around them. There is a real difference between lively children's chatter (which is fine) and running, shouting (which is generally not). Actually you see it everywhere. I saw an elderly lady trying to sit in a seat (designated for the elderly) on a bus last week, and a mother with 2 children asked her to get up so her small child (approx 3) could sit down......

Another day, another child-complaint thread. On Mumsnet of all places 😂

Children should be seen and not heard!

Well you can see the parents that can’t control their children on this thread 😂

YANBU. Children in restaurants should be well behaved. I don’t sit their shouting and screaming and banging the table while I eat and I don’t expect Dd to either. I’ve only ever had to leave a restaurant with her once and that was my fault anyway because she was tired and I didn’t want to cook. I plan better now.

YANBU. I remember a couple of times when my children were younger paying for a babysitter, going out with my DH and being seated next to noisy children when I was just desperate for some quiet adult time.

Fine to take kids out, not fine if they are so noisy they are disturbing other people.

It's not rocket science.

As is always the case with these sort of threads people go out of their way and take extreme positions that in no way reflect the reality of the situation. Nobody expects a 'noise free' evening out, for kids to be 'locked away' or 'kept hidden'. Different establishments gear themselves towards a certain clientele and the ambiance that goes with that. There is a Pizza Express near me that goes out of its way to cater for kids parties/birthdays, if you walk past it on a Saturday afternoon it is carnage with balloons, cake, games, music, kids running about etc. I would be a bit of twat to go in there during those times and start complaining about the noise, same with a local pub that has a playground installed in the beer garden, full of noisy kids at weekends. Equally, I dont think it is unreasonable for people who visit a venue that cater for a more adult customer base to expect a certain atmosphere that does not include over excited or upset children. I would be annoyed if I had a toddler crawling past my head while having a meal and the parents did nothing or kids playing drums with the cutlery on the table next to me while I'm there to relax, enjoy some decent food, catch up with friends. If your kids can't marry their behaviour to the prevailing ambience of the venue then perhaps it is wise not to take them there??

I’m with you OP.