To think £6,000 a year energy bills are completely unsustainable

[Butterflyfluff]

Following on from this thread but quite unbelievably the projected figure has gone from £4,200 to £6,000 now.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4607670-to-think-that-very-few-people-can-manage-ps4200-energy-bills?page=40

Where will this all end?

@pointythings

"EDF is doing fine because the French Government owns it."

++++

www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/10/edf-sues-french-government-for-7bn-after-forced-to-sell-energy-at-a-loss-macron-price-cap

@1dayatatime that will iron itself out in the courts, but meanwhile French households are protected in a way that UK households are not. Ultimately human lives are more important than corporate profit. Shareholders don't work for what they get.

They are speaking to the government with a proposal of a loan because they know we all can’t pay 6k a year. This will then be paid back by us the tax payer in order for them to continue. Same as when we bailed out the banks. Hence my point, if your business requires a massive loan to continue, in this case state funded at a huge cost to us all in the future, it must be a no as it is worthless and should be wound down.

If they are making huge profits then they’re price gouging and it should be addressed. Either way there should be no state support to private energy companies

Totally agree there should be no state support to energy companies. Tax payers shoudl be prioritised over shareholders (who are also tax payers so get their fair share that way).

Mildly related but someone on another post mentioned about a guy called Peter Zeihan who puts everything into more of a global perspective. Germany’s in a lot of trouble it seems morally about their energy use and future currently. Not very positive viewing but knowledge is power right? This is a lot bigger than us xxx

Not the case. If it was, why have standing charges increased so much?

This just popped up on my radar so thought I would link it here:

www.centrica.com/media-centre/news/2022/british-gas-to-donate-10-percent-of-profits-to-help-customers-which-trebles-customer-support-package/

This. I agree completely.

The crony contracts make me

So the choice is:

A) get back to normal energy prices BUT throw Ukraine under a bus and let Putin keep the bits of Ukraine he has seized.

B) Continue to support Ukraine, stand up to Putin but be prepared to these crazy energy prices for as long as it takes.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-62663247.amp

There is no option C of the government subsidising energy bills because there simply is no money left after a £450 billion debt splurge on Covid that saw total Government debt rise to £2.4 trillion and an interest bill of £83 billion a year.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10645845/amp/Paying-UKs-debt-cost-83bn-one-year-equal-1-235-person.html

There is the windfall tax option from Labour - but that is unpalatable to the Tories because they are the party of shareholders, not the party of the rest of us.

If the Tories have money for tax cuts - they can shut the fuck up about the deficit/debt bill.

All they have told us the last six weeks is there is money for tax cuts.

And they want people to get behind Sunak, who supposedly now have too much/all the money out in COVID even though he knew it was a bad idea. Incredible.

I just hope all the people that coined it in claiming furlough while also working are bottom of the pile for help with energy bills.

@1dayatatime Very accurate and depressing .

The trouble with A might be that he doesn’t stop there and what the west are doing is trying to avoid further war.

Its a good post though as it lays out options

The spending over covid is hard to bear as we could used that support now

Sunak talked about feelings over closing economy today, pointed out downsides were not communicated. Which is true

Although obvious at the time to many too late now

I did catch that British Gas will donate 10% of profits but didn’t hear details

There is no money for tax cuts either. This is the central difference between Truss and Sunak.

However as you point tax cuts are popular amongst (generally wealthier than average) Tory party members that will decide the next PM regardless of how economically damaging this is.

The situation we're in is a complete failure of energy policy. Anyone involved in energy planning for this country should hang their heads in shame. Total failure to be in this position.

Also, France isn't "shielded" from the price increase. EDF still has to buy energy on the market, it's being prevented from recouping those costs. It's making huge losses (5Bn euros in the first half of the year, projected 30Bn for the year, more next year). All this money just comes from taxpayers.

Most countries in northern Europe in particular are exposed like we are - Germany particularly so, just with a slightly greater lag time.

Now, we're slightly extra fucked for a couple of reasons. No gas storage, and betting the farm on gas for our electric base load (rather than say, nuclear).

The best options I can see would be to soften the impact for the next year or two, whilst preserving the price signal - i.e. we can't obscure these higher prices completely from consumers.

In the meantime, we go hell for leather for energy self sufficiency. Bring fracking online now, lower the planning bar for solar / wind and hurry the fuck up with our various nuclear projects.

@carefullycourageous

"There is the windfall tax option from Labour - but that is unpalatable to the Tories because they are the party of shareholders, not the party of the rest of us."

+++

Nah - that's not going to work either as there is not enough money you can raise from windfall taxing the likes of BP and She'll to cover the enormous cost of freezing the price cap. Not unless you can also windfall tax the Norwegian, Qatari and UAE gas profits as well- which they might just say no to.

@MarshaBradyo

"The spending over covid is hard to bear as we could used that support now

Sunak talked about feelings over closing economy today, pointed out downsides were not communicated. Which is true

Although obvious at the time to many too late now"

+++

Exactly- lots of people were supportive of Covid support without thinking that there is always a price to pay later. Anyone who pointed this out were accused of being anti vaxx granny killers.

We are now paying the price.

@Dissimilitude

"In the meantime, we go hell for leather for energy self sufficiency. Bring fracking online now, lower the planning bar for solar / wind and hurry the fuck up with our various nuclear projects."

+++

I wouldn't be too hopeful on Boris "promise" of 10 new nukes in the next 10 years.

Hinkley Point construction was scheduled to take 10 years, it is now scheduled to take 20 years.

amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/20/hinkley-point-c-nuclear-power-station-edf-delayed-covid-costs-rise

@MarshaBradyo

"The trouble with A might be that he doesn’t stop there and what the west are doing is trying to avoid further war. "

+++

Boris talks of Ukrainians paying in blood but let's be very clear that there will be substantial UK excess deaths this winter because of the unaffordable energy bills.

Sunak talked about feelings over closing economy today, pointed out downsides were not communicated. Which is true

I mean, he's not wrong, but it's a bit rich coming from the person who was in charge of the Exchequer at the time.

Brilliantly expressed..really completely spot on.

@carefullycourageous this isn't going to happen Sunak and Truss have both said that they're not going to accept this.

Sunak is currently sticking with his vat cut and Truss is sticking with her tax cut..

Worldwide, nuclear facilities on average take about five years to build. We need to get going now.