To think that very few people can manage £4200 energy bills

[Butterflyfluff]

news.sky.com/story/energy-bills-forecast-to-rise-even-higher-than-previously-thought-12668906

This simply isn’t manageable for the majority of people.

Where’s this going to end?

Unless you're single, no children and unable to claim anything... was my point

Unless you're single, no children and unable to claim anything... was my point

I'm single, with a child and am unable to claim benefits. I'm getting a £400 lump sum though.

It goes directly into the energy account, not to people themselves. So whoever is paying the bill, will get the benefit.

I am on a fix until March 24. I'm going to give my £400 to my parents to help them as they will struggle. My DD is only £95 and I am in credit by a quite a bit.

I suspect that they will be mostly (or that the percentage increase in the standing charge will be much less than the overall 77%+ increase mooted). The increase in the spring was justified because of the big energy companies being forced to take on unprofitable customers from the ones that had gone bust.. I would be pretty confident that this time around it’ll be more the unit costs that take a hammering. This would obviously be good news as it incentivises lower use.

The other thing I keep wondering about.. these “average” bills cited in the media and on here.. They’re using 2020/2021 average utilisation as far as I know? Surely almost everyone will reduce their use a lot? I wonder what the average will actually be.

The other thing I keep wondering about.. these “average” bills cited in the media and on here.. They’re using 2020/2021 average utilisation as far as I know? Surely almost everyone will reduce their use a lot? I wonder what the average will actually be.
Yes, the whole bills going up to £x makes it seem like an unavoidable increase, when many people with bills that high or higher will be able to reduce them. It will be hardest for those who already have low bills but can't absorb the increase, or for those with higher ones but high energy needs.

I think we are technically in a recession now - last quarter was negative growth and this one currently almost certainly is too it’s just that it hasn’t ended yet.. So I guess there is lower demand already BUT like a lot of people, I’m not really feeling it yet. It’s summer.. energy use is low, the big increase hasn’t happened yet.. It feels like the calm before the storm I think. Like just before the winter 2020 lockdown when we all knew it was coming and that this one would be terrible for everyone (less clapping for carers and barbecuing in the sun and more sitting in the dark watching TV feeling depressed for day after day after day…) You knew it was coming and there wasn’t anything you could do about it.

I’ve stopped a lot of treats and cut a lot of things but these are preemptive more than anything to be honest. I can also see the argument for not cutting to the bone until you absolutely have to.

The other thing that occurred to me was that a long time a go, in practically another life, I was that 20 something young professional in London with a good job, no family and renting a tiny flat (because London prices). My energy bills were tiny because you don’t really even have the heating on and you were barely at home anyway because you worked 70 hours a week. I know energy prices feed through to the real world eventually but not everyone feels it the same.

I tried having a conversation about energy prices with a friend recently who seemed (unbelievably?) to be unaware of the drama. She says she pays less for her energy bill than she does her for her Wi-Fi, which I can well believe (small energy efficient new build flat, none of the family including children are home between 8-6 year round..)

This.

I am overwhelmed by the prospect of how areas with high levels of deprivation are going to survive.

Also don't understand why it is called a cap of the costs keep going up and up.

The other thing I keep wondering about.. these “average” bills cited in the media and on here.. They’re using 2020/2021 average utilisation as far as I know? Surely almost everyone will reduce their use a lot? I wonder what the average will actually be.
I have thought this myself. My energy company wants to set my direct debit at a level that reflects this years price for last years usage. I’ve told them my usage won’t be the same as last year, I’ll have to wrap up in blankets because I need to half my usage.

Ok. Either this is a troll post or you are rather detached from reality. RISHI is that you?

My job is remote so I'm leaving the country this winter. About half of my colleagues are doing the same. If it's going to be 4k it's cost effective to go abroad.

It's not great for the economy for me to be earning here and spending in another country but this government doesn't give a shit about the economy, that much is clear.

I think that's bit unfair. The fact it's not your reality doesn't mean it is not someone else's. I know quite a few people who overall spend thousands on holidays... Lots of things on this site don't apply to me, doesn't mean they are not a reality for some.

It's not "not reality". It's someone else's reality. That's it.

But the PP said ‘most people’ spend £4k on holidays - which means she think that is most people’s reality - which is a very long way from the actual reality

The other thing that occurred to me was that a long time a go, in practically another life, I was that 20 something young professional in London with a good job, no family and renting a tiny flat (because London prices). My energy bills were tiny because you don’t really even have the heating on and you were barely at home anyway because you worked 70 hours a week. I know energy prices feed through to the real world eventually but not everyone feels it the same.

Yup, this was true for me too (when I lived in London). Not least because almost all the heat I needed drifted up from the downstairs flat. I just looked back and 12 years ago I was paying £35pm for both gas and electric. If the £6000 comes to pass, I'll be paying a lot more than 10 times that.

It's not a reality for "most people" though, that's what the poster said.

New thread for anyone who wants to continue the discussion

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4616752-to-think-ps6000-a-year-energy-bills-are-completely-unsustainable

Oh well yeah that could have been worded better but isn't the average spending annually about 5 or 6k. Well pre covid, post COVID it's hard to say with holidays moved in last two years.
That would then logically than mean majority spends 4k+. Being pedantic and annoying majority=most to me🙈

As I said earlier, do some research! The average energy bill is usually around 1.5k per year, so people need to find approx an extra 2-3k. Roughly a third of British people spend over 2k on their summer holiday, and another third of people spend 1-2k. So I estimate that maybe half of people can cover their increased energy bill just by reducing their usage and cancelling their summer holiday. Some will also have to cut treats like eating out or days out. But the majority of people (maybe 75%?) have enough flex in their budget to be able to cut these non-essentials and pay the bills (at the expense of the leisure and hospitality industries, but that’s another story).

Of course that leaves 25% of people who won’t be able to pay the bills even if they make these cuts, and that’s where the real problem lies.

£4k on holidays might not be so out there. It's about what a package holiday for a family of 4 costs in the school holidays. Many people have that sort of holiday. Abta say that at least half of people do, they won't all cost £4k, some will spend less, some a lot more.

www.abta.com/industry-zone/reports-and-publications/abta-holiday-habits-reports/holiday-habits-report-2019

But the point is that many people (probably at least 60-80%) have sufficient disposable income to cope with the higher energy bills, but for most of them, it will come at significant detriment to their discretionary spending, as they see a comfortable disposable income reduced to little or nothing after housing and essential bills, food, travel, clothes.

So they have to reduce or cut out their spending on holidays, extra clothes, grooming, food and drink out of the house, technology, car replacement, decorating/improving their homes, days out, anything that is not essential, but nice to have.

Most people (by which I mean more than half, maybe up to about 70/80%, obviously acknowledging that a significant minority of people have insufficient income to cover even the basics) will still be able to afford the basics, but the lifestyle they are used to will be significantly affected. That doesn't mean that they 'can't manage' higher energy bills. They can, but it's a much less comfortable version of managing than they're used to.

Yes most of the country could cut back and just manage but they'll cut back on holidays, take aways, leisure etc and then loads of people who work in those industries will lose their jobs. If nothing is done then we will have a very long recession and plenty of people losing their jobs because most people dont have the income to spend. The country needs people to spend money on non essentials to keep the economy going.

Just because most can technically manage doesn't mean there won't be huge problems.

traditionally revolutions are started by the middle class. I am not saying there would be a revolution but generally the middle class fight back more when their interests are affected.

Hell hath no fury like a middle income Brit who has to go without his Spanish holiday and his takeaway coffee.

If nothing is done then we will have a very long recession and plenty of people losing their jobs because most people dont have the income to spend
I do wonder if this is the intention. Our level of consumption is unsustainable and asking people to cut back won’t work. Increasing the price of essentials does the job quite nicely though.

It's already happening a lot

@onthefencesitter I certainly hope for a revolution. People don't give a shit until things effect them though, so it seems to be taking longer than many of us have wanted. This maybe the final straw.

My manager thinks that its only the poor people like cleaners who would be affected and people like us would be fine. sadly this mindset is very prevalent.

I think she is right in the sense that she wouldn't be badly affected as she bought much earlier than I did and at a lower price so her mortgage isn't as big as mine (if she bought at the same time as I did, her house in the home counties cost as much as my flat in London!) And her house is an extended 2 up 2 down (so now a 3 bed) so the energy bills wouldn't be huge. Also only has 1 child and a husband who WFH so no childcare bills really.