To think size 18 is plus size and not 'hardly plus size'

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The poster, with a very large following, is saying a size 18 isn't really plus size by much, and that 'most people (in the UK), are above a Size 16?

Really? I don't know that many people above a size 16. I really don't. I know lots and lots of size 12/14 and thought that was about average? It's usually the first sizes to sell out

www.instagram.com/p/ChiDp-1Mos3/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Not goading @CanDo92 anymore than that poster is goading thinking it's their business how fat I am because they pay tax.

Yes of course. But it's hard to eat more than 2000 calories of vegetables! If you're eating healthy food rather than junk, it's much easier to eat the right amount of calories, whatever that amount is for you.

But they didn’t make any comment about you, or refer to you.

You working very hard to insert your own unusual case into conversations that are not about you.

So do I … I get paid £70k a year .. a pay a lot of tax, as does my husband.

Luckily I don’t begrudge my Tax /NI contributions .. people need extra support for all sorts of reasons, some are lifestyle choices, some are situations that people find themselves thrust into. What gives me the right to judge?

Yes. Because all public health issues are relevant to all tax payers.

The 2000 calories a day is bollocks. Fitness watches linked to phones are amazing/surprising - when you do 10,000 steps a day (which I do) and you hit the 30 min exercise and stand goals etc and you realise that even then you’ve burnt only 1500 calories (resting and active) you understand just how little food you actually need to stay the same/even less to lose!

I can't comprehend the idea that paying taxes makes your opinion valid on all public health issues, including lifestyle choices. That's not a rabbit hole, it's just crazy. So I won't engage with it.

As are so so many people on this thread!

All these exceptions, as if they are the rule.

It's not about judging though. It is saying its still problematic and that people need to change their lifestyles for a variety of reasons.

We have changed public policy over smoking because other people smoking is relevant to us all.

Individually I'm not going to shout or judge people because the reasons for it are complex. However it doesn't mean its only the business of the person who is overweight either though. Cos everyone who has that attitude that its not anyone else's business is missing the point that it does impact on all of us.

It was only a few weeks ago here when I read that 16 was the average dress size in the UK.

Wasn't there also an M and S ad some time ago where a size 16 woman runs through a forest discarding her clothes before yelling "I'm normal!"?

If 16 is the upper bound of normal, then size 18 would make it just above, so still a plus size.

For the people that the discussion was about, those who are obese and / or a size 18 or higher 2,000 is likely a reasonable starting number though if they are quite active.

I need quite a lot less than that, as there’s just not very much of me that needs keeping warm, having blood pumped around, and so on.

I think knowing your own base calorie needs is quite a useful thing, it’s maybe worth for many people taking the time and effort to track calories, exercise and weight properly for a few months to find out what it is.

However, if you eat "healthy" food 2000 calories is a lot of food. If you eat junk it's hardly any. I'm convinced that's the real answer. If you eat good nutrious food in halfway sensible protions, at regular mealtimes and don't snack/graze your weight will be fine. If you have a lot of weight to lose it will take time, but it will happen. Of course junk food is designed to be addictive so that's not easy either

I agree with you @Unscented that what you eat is very important not just the calorie figure.

With highly processed carbs it's much easier to overeat - and actually consume a lot more calories.

But even with things that are part of a balanced diet in controlled amounts like cheese, nuts, salmon and avocado it's very, very easy to eat too much of though. And it isn't necessarily filling. My stomach wouldn't thank me but I could eat a whole bag of nuts or a whole block of cheese in a sitting pretty easily. I don't do that but I can have too much easily if I don't weigh/measure it.

Calories are unfortunately important. 2000 for me is too many on most days whether that's made up of salmon, avocado, lentils, nuts and salad or McDonalds.

We think that other personal/health things should be everyone's business.

Cancer or Mental Health, for example aren't relevant to everyone, but it's still reasonable to expect that everyone has some interest in things that can be done to help treat or cure those who are affected and prevent them in future.

Obesity is the same thing to me. Of course an individual's weight is none of my business, any more than than their Cancer or MH diagnosis is, but if we have a huge problem with Cancer, mental health or obesity across the population, that is something that needs to be discussed.

There is a massive difference between going up to someone and saying "you are smoking, you stink, you are disgusting" and saying its problematic to smoke and we need to address attitudes to acceptability of smoking and we should not be promoting that lifestyle or encouraging more smoking.

The same is true for obesity. Because it is a public health issue and its revelant to others because it has an impact on them socially and financially.

Unfortunately though being relatively fit does not offset the health risks of obesity. You are still at an increased risk of obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart attacks, angina, stroke, and other illnesses if you are obese and carrying too much fat.

The “fat but fit” idea is a bit of myth when it comes to expected health issues.

I can’t remember where I accessed the primary research now, but this is a decent link on the subject;

www.berkshireindependenthospital.co.uk/news/is-fat-but-fit-a-myth

I think rather than giving people a food pie chart and telling people 2000 calories is a norm the NHS would be better directing people to calculate their TDEE. They have a BMI webpage, it would be quite easy for them to do a TDEE calculator.

And revise their healthy eating advise to include more protein and fat and fewer carbs.

Yes, over eating is over eating. My point was simply that if you're eating real, healthy food at regular intervals it's quite difficult to overeat, whereas it's very easy to do on junk food.

@Goosygandy as the article said not everything is genetic but we have many different genes that influence obesity in different ways and each individual is different.

For example you might have a big blood sugar spike after you eat pasta but rice not so much. I might be the opposite. These things all make a difference on an individual basis.

Two people the same sex and BMI will feel full after a different amount of the same food has been eaten due to their genes.

We are not all made the same and the same advice for all on weight management is overly simplistic and lacking in efficacy as a result. Thinking it's all about calories in and calories out is so overly simplistic that I doubt the intelligence of people who trot this out.

We need a lot more research as we are only at the beginning of scientific understanding.

Yes but the message should be promoting healthy lifestyles not demonising eating or being overweight. It's not the same as smoking - any amount of smoking in public is detrimental to yourself and others. Eating isn't.

I don’t count calories and am slim. If I start to weigh more I eat less of the things I know are high in calories. It’s not tricky.

Does it also concern you that I'm a healthy weight, fit as a fiddle, live cleanly and so could well go on into my 90s, with the tax payer paying my pension for the next 30 years? Not to mention expensive social care in the quite likely event my healthy body outlasts my mental capacity?
I don't agree with using its NOYB to close down an interesting discussion, but I do think justifying the right to an opinion on financial grounds is flawed.

.. but I don’t care … I know being fat is unhealthy .. but so are a lot of things. I’m am very happy in life, with myself, with my husband, with my friends and family.

My point was simply that if you're eating real, healthy food at regular intervals it's quite difficult to overeat

I disagree. I've being doing it for years. It's actually very easy to eat too much cooking "real food" from scratch.

@Mousemat25 it's not tricky for you to reduce your weight. Good for you.

Other people are not the same as you.

The problem is obesity is visible and shaming.

I think the causes are a lot more complicated then people realise. Making people feel bad about themselves, and encouraging judgement of people who are overweight, will not help at all.

Somehow we need to make it so that people who are obese feel great about themselves, have good mental health and aren’t judged (because to do otherwise is both fucked up and counterproductive) whilst still promoting healthy eating and exercise.