Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

[Luckyloubytwo]

We are in France at the moment and having a mostly wonderful time. DS 9 has asd but is usually fairly easy going, quiet, and you wouldn't notice he was different to other children.

However, yesterday and today he has had a huge meltdown in public. When this happens in the UK it is difficult but people generally are understanding and mimd their own business. However, here it seems to bring the whole town to a standstill. People will just stop in their tracks and stare. Today we were in a busy area and it seemed to bring everyone to a halt. We all got very upset back at the car and I just can't stop crying.

I am just feeling so upset at the attitude of the French people towards our son.

I'm so so glad you posted this as the exact thing happened to me in Disneyland Paris! The Brits may glance, look but never had a stop and stare till I was surrounded by the French! It was upsetting as they just had hands on hips or just stopped dead and started and se had really obvious weird confused looks. Second day I just began to stare them down which worked , some of my child's behaviour wasn't meltdowns but minor tantrums, hiding and being in a pushchair alot(he's 6 but a pushchair is just easier on long days out). Don't go again or next time I will come you and we'll stare them all down together! You're doing great, don't let it get you down please. I'm sure not all the French are like this but you did not imagine it, many are just plain rude.

I love France. Currently holidaying here and have lived here in the past. Adore the place!
BUT I have always found lots of French people to be very judgey. Very haughty and think they know best. Not always very understanding… on my year abroad at university I remember a sales assistant in a shoe shop made me cry because she was just so mean and unhelpful…
So try not to let it bother you is what I’m trying to say! I know that’s easier said than done but it really is a cultural thing I think and not one that will change any time soon …

We were in Spain a few weeks back and our child had a meltdown the Spanish ladies tried to offer help and asked if we needed them to take our child for a break. We declined and thanked them but I couldn't believe their generosity. When at the pool they all loved to watch our child swim up and down and gave compliments on their ability.

In the UK we tend to be stared at.

Well, we are in a restaurant in S. France now and a French family have a very lively and vocal 3 year old that has been shushed so many times she is now having an epic meltdown. The waiters are clucking, tutting and scowling now. Everyone is full on staring ( except for us) The pressure on this poor family to control a small toddler feels so intense even to me. The couple are ashen face and visibly stressed. How is this good for the children? They may well be eventually become well behaved and silent but at what price? It looks positively Victorian from our table. Clearly visible disapproval is still the done thing.

The words ‘such as’ are aggressive? Hardly ‘biting your head off’

You claimed that the article was BS, I asked you why and you won’t reply. It’s a well written article with plenty of reputable sources. I don’t see what’s so subjective about it.

Equally, you have decided that everyone saying their experience of French culture is wrong, the article is wrong, everything is wrong with what people are saying. But you’re rightZ how about you actually listen to people here who have had experience with the deplorable services for autistic children in France? Rather than effectively sticking your finger so your ears going ‘la la la I’m not listening’. It’s not nice when people slag of your home country, I get it, but pretending there isn’t a huge probables with how autistic children are treated in France is not exactly helpful.

In a lot of French schools there's no such thing as SEN provision,not just France but in many other countries.

This is a horrifying read :(

When in France this year, I realised how out of touch they are with so many things. I was very grateful to come home!
I’m sorry you’re struggling.
Try to enjoy the rest of your holiday.

Regarding the apparent lack of people with disabilities in France, I was on a French beach yesterday. There was a young woman with Down’s Syndrome and nobody was remotely interested, never mind staring. There was also a couple of badly-behaved children, one French, one not.

I had no idea France had such a backwards view of LD and Autism. I've just read that article and oh my gosh sectioning children and then not using evidenced based theories like PBS.
I'm so sorry OP please ignore them.

YANBU
Your post reminds me of the film The Extraordinarys which is based on a true story. It’s a French film (Vincent Cassel is in it) about a group of volunteers working with young autistic people who are pretty much neglected and shunned by the French state and society. Some bits of the film were hard to watch.

Anyways lots of solidarity OP. My ds has autism and ld and there have been times that people stared at us when we’ve been out. Apart from one occasion where this woman wouldn’t stop staring I’ve never let it get to me. I just tell myself that I won’t ever see this people again and choose to focus only on my son.

This too shall pass

Op sending so much love.

Do please please try Spain next time. We’ve been to Spain mainland and islands and everyone was amazing with our HFA son aged 11.

Hi OP, sorry you have experienced that. My husband is half french and we recently holidayed in france and DD had a tantrum, she is not on the spectrum. People stared and the kids who saw us were horrified. I think it is a shock for them to see kids that way. When we were there, all the french kids were so well behaved and never saw anyone had a tantrum in public.

Sorry I meant to say cultural difference and differences in bringing up children is part of it

Really? I've lived in France 20 years and when I return to the UK I'm shocked by the behavior of children. Running and shouting around the supermarkets, no parental control at all. France isn't perfect but when a disability is recognized the state system is generous. I'm very happy to have brought up my 2 children here rather than the UK

As my mum used to say “There’s nowt as funny as folk”
Try not to let it get to you as we can never understand how some behave the way they do, no matter the nationality.
Hope you enjoy the rest of your holiday.

There is SEN provision in French schools!!!!

PAI, PAP, extra time in exams, use of computers rather than writing etc. etc.

This thread has really annoyed me - I've lived in France nearly 20 years and yes it is different to the UK (duh, it's a different country) but some things are better, some worse and some just different.

Staring is not rude here.

Talking to other people's children is not rude here (my DC have often had lovely strangers stopping to chat to them. My then 18 month old got a round of applause and a bravo from someone for climbing a huge flight of steps)

Children are expected to behave and can be told off. Equally when you disagree with that person you just shrug your shoulders.

Greeting everyone (shops, bus drivers, a friend's parent etc) with Bonjour Madame/Monsieur is expected

Both my DC have ADHD and dyspraxia. Several objective (not questionnaires) asessments and diagnosis in 4 months each. And at every appointment with specialists they have ALL spent time asking how i am doing and how i am coping. Its not just supporting my DC.

I'm not saying it's perfect - there's still progress to be made but my experience has been generally good.

Im sorry you had a bad experience Op (and others). But the staring wasn't necessarily meant nastily. And its not like having a load of foreigners chipping trying to help would have been useful would it?

Nobody is trying to upset French people by saying France is markedly less friendly to disabled people. It’s absolutely common knowledge that autistics have been subjected to some pretty awful life experiences there. Taken into care, kept in mental health facilities indefinitely, excluded from education subjected to “therapy” and behaviour modification.

If this was happening to any other group in the country next to yours (or anywhere else really) you’d probably point it out and say it wasn’t great.

Gawd. Maybe she should have added ‘in my humble opinion and of course I don’t mean all French people, heck some of my best friends are French’ etc etc 🙄

My dd has meltdowns, we have been stared at many times in the uk and I have ended up crying so I sympathise with OP. France probably isn’t a place I would take dd but Spain is much better. I’m sure not all French people are like this, same as not all people in the uk are but maybe there’s just more awareness in the uk?

Please don't generalise, not all 'french' people are the same and the same applies to British people!

People like you are the problem! I doubt the op is too bothered about offending the whole of France (They'll get over it or tell her it's not a thing!)

Her issue is how she feels. Not you rushing on to censor her.

I think you’ve actually just been very fortunate when your son has had a meltdown in the UK.

IME people in the UK do stare a lot.

I have a few students who have meltdowns quite regularly and the people around are used to it but they still stare.

I think it’s hard not to stare tbh even though it’s rude to do so.
Us Brits are always worried about being rude so we try not to stare.
Whereas other countries don’t see things being rude in the same way we do (eg. they don’t say sorry every 5 mins) and so then staring may not be rude to them.

You are going to get dickheads wherever you go.
But I would try not to care about people staring as it’s not necessarily done out of being nasty or judgemental.

I'm not saying lalala I'm not listening and I'm not denying anyone's lived experiences. I never said anything about the article being "bullshit", I personally find the journalism and researching questionable, as I do with a lot of Guardian articles. What I do have an issue with is the horrible attitudes and statements about "the French" on this thread, as apparently @MNHQ have no issue with blatant xenophobia. You're completely misrepresenting what I said and accusing me of all sorts of intentions and actions I never had and never took.

It’s highly likely OP has experienced her child having meltdowns in the uk so I think we can allow her to judge if it was a different experience in France.