Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

[Luckyloubytwo]

We are in France at the moment and having a mostly wonderful time. DS 9 has asd but is usually fairly easy going, quiet, and you wouldn't notice he was different to other children.

However, yesterday and today he has had a huge meltdown in public. When this happens in the UK it is difficult but people generally are understanding and mimd their own business. However, here it seems to bring the whole town to a standstill. People will just stop in their tracks and stare. Today we were in a busy area and it seemed to bring everyone to a halt. We all got very upset back at the car and I just can't stop crying.

I am just feeling so upset at the attitude of the French people towards our son.

Not so long ago that they put autistic children in straightjackets in France.
Bernadette Chirac has done an awful lot, but there's still a very long way to go.

DD used to have meltdowns but only at home. It was a nightmare. I can remember one assistante sociale telling us, in front of dd, that we were the worst parents she'd ever met. She met all thé criteria for PDA in spades, and after a day at the autism centre in Limoges no diagnosis. They'd not heard of it.

Slowly they're moving into the 20th century.

Staring isn't considered particularly rude in France though, whereas in England it is. So try not to take it too personally, the French like to look.

I think you might be reading too much into the stare.
In the UK its rude to stare, this isn't the case in every culture. Some cultures it's perfectly fine to stop and stare at people (don't know if this is the case in France or not) .

I don't know if it's still the case, but until very recently France still subscribed to the "refrigerator mother" theory. It sadly doesn't surprise me that attitudes towards autism aren't good.

I'm so sorry you experienced this. We are all behind you OP 😘
(Well except for a few knobheads).

Nice. No, YANBU. Autism is difficult enough, without the judgey stares. Hope you feel better soon.

Unfortunately every country is different, and we have had issues in france too. My French friend (lives in U.K.) says the French are intolerant of additional needs and still hide people away - now these are generalisations but I don't think I see as many disabilities in public in france do he could be right. Never stopped me going g though

Unfortunately in some way, regardless of its reputation for free spirits and sentimental romance, French culture largely expect for conformity from its people in their community. The tolerance of individualism is actually not that great. They can be extra harsh if you don't conform to the normal expectation of what/how you are supposed to. Kids need to behave and table manners all sorts. Adults can lecture unknown children in public for not behaving to their age. That's a problem in school too. Can be really lack of supports to children needing special needs.

They probably didn't know the background information about your son, simple judging your parenting failure by assuming against the norm.

There's an element of being indifference and lack of empathy for all the above too.

We used to live in France and loved lots of things about the country and its culture. But did find it's lack of tolerance for people who are different.

I'm sorry you felt so awful because of the way they stared at you. Just please don't take it too personally.

@Luckyloubytwo
Hope you've had a nice cuppa & feel much better by now. Or wine. Or both! Enjoy the rest of your holiday. xx

Yes, we had some judgy experiences skiing in France with our autistic DD 😞.

I wonder, how do they treat/manage autistic children in France? Do they hide them away?

Agree. It is very disconcerting for a Brit, but it is not meant rudely, as it would be here. British habits of not acknowledging people, which we see as 'minding our own business' are rude there - it is super-rude to get into a lift, and not say hello, for example, whereas someone would probably hit the alarm bell if you did that in London.

I live in france and can confirm that they are far far behind when it comes to anything like autism or any disability actually. They have a very institutional system and I find it really strange you never ever ever see disabled people or children out with their families. I’ve been here for 13 years and I’ve never ever seen a family group out and about like you would elsewhere. They tend to stare all the time aswell- for us it’s rude but they don’t have the same things in their definition of rudeness!!! They always stop and stare at me when I’m driving or at traffic lights because my car is RHD from the UK. I wind the window down and wave really really enthusiastically at them as if I know them. My mum is disabled and last time she was here we went to a museum and the receptionist didn’t know how we could access the entrance with the wheelchair. In the end someone else got us a ramp out for her wheelchair but I needed help getting the wheelchair up the ramp a bit whilst holding the door- she just stood there and I said ‘can you help?’ And she said ‘shall I call someone yes?’ And I said ‘no- YOU can help’ and she looked horrified but helped me. They generally are very ignorant to anything like these issues so don’t let it get to you. They are living in the 1970s and with blinkers on. They are the exact same when it comes to racism and sexism. Way behind the times! F em. Enjoy your hols Xxx

Actually de Gaulle, not a man noted for his human warmth in most respects, was a pioneer in integrating children with additional needs into society. He was very proud of, and loving towards, his daughter, who had Down's syndrome, in an era when children with Down's were often shut up in institutions for life, in the UK as well as France.

France is a more conformist society than the UK, which makes it harder for people with differences of any type to integrate. But that doesn't mean the entire country is unsympathetic or wilfully cruel, as some posters seem to be implying.

Oh, that's lovely - everyone French is judgy, unenlightened, racist and sexist. And of course, saying that is not racist at all. Yeah, fuck the French, obviously 🙄

French attitudes to parenting in general are very different from the UK, not just for ND children. It can be a bit of a culture shock because it's so close and in many ways culturally similar. But on child rearing, there's a big difference.

Oh, that's lovely - everyone French is judgy, unenlightened, racist and sexist. And of course, saying that is not racist at all. Yeah, fuck the French, obviously

You do wonder why some people chose to live there..

My (I think) NT DS had a huge meltdown in France when he was younger and it felt like the whole town was staring at us. I’ve never had that reaction at home.

I'm so sorry you had to withstand that. It must have been so difficult. I was recently on holiday in Spain and there was a little girl i think might have been autistic- she had a few lengthy meltdowns by the pool. After a while, the first time, I realised I had been staring, but I promise you it was because I was in utter awe at the calmness, kindness and love the parents showed her. I wish I had the guts to tell them that.

Everything I have read about understanding and recognition of ASD in France acknowledges that they are around 40 years behind. It is still very difficult to find anyone who can diagnose it IME.

Please don't give them the middle finger. Try to ignore them.

This post is basically ‘I don’t know if your perception of the situation was wrong, but I’m going to assume it was, based on knowing no facts whatsoever’

Don't do that either. What is the point in inflaming an already tense situation? You've got this OP. You're doing just great.

You have huge symptathy from me OP. I have experienced similar, but in Greece. My DC had a bit of a meltdown in a shop in Greece while on holiday. I had similar with stares, looks and a complete lack of understanding.

It put me off returning to Greece if I'm honest. And yes, I know it was a one off and I'm sure not everywhere in Greece is like that. I am saying that it makes you feel awful inside, something I now associate with that holiday and place, even if it's not entirely logical.

It is not just in France. When my son was 5, he had a meltdown in one of the smaller London museums in my area. A French woman came up to him and told him off in my presence. Bee-atch.