Page 6 | Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

Luckyloubytwo · 2022-08-21T16:03:18+00:00

We are in France at the moment and having a mostly wonderful time. DS 9 has asd but is usually fairly easy going, quiet, and you wouldn't notice he was different to other children. However, yesterday and today he has had a huge meltdown in public. When this happens in the UK it is difficult but people generally are understanding and mimd their own business. However, here it seems to bring the whole town to a standstill. People will just stop in their tracks and stare. Today we were in a busy area and it seemed to bring everyone to a halt. We all got very upset back at the car and I just can't stop crying. I am just feeling so upset at the attitude of the French people towards our son.

5zeds · 21/08/2022 19:38

I think if the parents of disabled children are saying there’s a problem, there is and the solution is not to tell them it didn’t happen, rarely happens or they misunderstood. What about asking someone you know with autistic children or who is autistic or indeed just has a disability what their experience is? See if you can do something about it.

5zeds · 21/08/2022 19:40

@LINABE minimising another’s experience is NOT softening the blow. OP knows her truth.

Goodbyemylover · 21/08/2022 19:45

Yup typical French. Sorry

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 21/08/2022 19:47

LINABE · 21/08/2022 19:13

Yep - appalling to read some of the 'views' on this thread. So judgemental towards a whole nation.

Maybe learn a bit about their culture before you judge...
The staring is something the French do. Nothing is meant by it, they are naturally inquisitive.
The French will 'tell you or your children off' if they see the need, yes even if you are a complete stranger. It is considered important and necessary to point out to someone where they are going wrong in a civilised society. For us it is very rude, for them it is polite and being a good citizen.
(you might not like it but if you understand even just a little of where they are culturally different it may stop you taking it too personally. (I learnt the hard way)

Actually a few lessons could be learned from the French people and how they bring up their children... who are brought up to be respectful of others and are taught their boundaries and discipline when they are young from their parents and their teachers including being able to express themselves and debate in a respectful way at a young age as well as having good manners.Generally the family unit is still respected and important in France and children will sit at the table and eat dinner together from a very young age, it is where they learn to debate and be part of a group. This makes for a well rounded, respectful, well educated young person with a wonderful joie de vivre.
Kids from the UK are given too much rope and don't understand or respect boundaries. The outcome of decades of soft parenting/schooling/ the 'woke' movement has caused massive issues in the socialisation and behaviour of young people who have little life skills and we are perceived by the French to have bad parenting skills (although the kids that are lucky enough to have had a private education do a lot better)
Disclaimer: Generalisation.

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How can you be ‘appalled’ at the views of French people on here and then make really rude and offensive generalisations about Brits?

Goodbyemylover · 21/08/2022 19:47

By the way my last message was to see if I could post. Now that I know I can. Yeah...French not so enlightened on Autism sadly.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 21/08/2022 19:47

Also I’m not sure I want to emulate a culture that still locks away disabled children thanks, even if it does mean children can debate at the dinner table.

BelleMarionette · 21/08/2022 19:48

I don't like the fetishist attitude that some have to the French here. French children can be badly behaved, same as children from any country.

RelationshipOrNot · 21/08/2022 19:50

I notice those who are angry about generalisations etc. are not engaging with the article I and another poster linked to.

mycatisannoying · 21/08/2022 19:51

Oh, sweetheart. That is so very painful. Your experience does not surprise me though.

mycatisannoying · 21/08/2022 19:52

SavoirFlair · 21/08/2022 17:04

* Attitude of French people in the place we are staying, is what I think you meant

YABU by the way.

Oh, do go away.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 21/08/2022 19:53

5zeds · 21/08/2022 19:38

I think if the parents of disabled children are saying there’s a problem, there is and the solution is not to tell them it didn’t happen, rarely happens or they misunderstood. What about asking someone you know with autistic children or who is autistic or indeed just has a disability what their experience is? See if you can do something about it.

This

Decidualcast · 21/08/2022 19:53

I’m sorry for what happened to you and your DS. I returned from the S of France today. One of the first comments DS (11) made when we arrived was about the lack of accessibility for disabled people. I also wondered about the lack of visibility of people with disabilities, and every single child was calm and well-behaved. FWIW, I found the French people we interacted with (from a variety of backgrounds) to be very warm and kind (including in Paris).

SizzlerFizzler · 21/08/2022 19:54

BelleMarionette · 21/08/2022 19:48

I don't like the fetishist attitude that some have to the French here. French children can be badly behaved, same as children from any country.

There was a period about ten years ago where there was a stream of books on how to dress like a French woman, how to eat/stay slim like a French woman, how to raise your child as the French do. Publishing houses must have had entire departments dedicated to issuing lifestyle manuals on all things Gallic.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 21/08/2022 19:54

@Jourdain11 I’m not suggesting there aren’t mixed race people in France. It I’m white and my DH and kids are not. The area we visit is VERY provincial and staring is the norm but I do feel it happens all the time and wondered if this is why. I have rarely seen mixed races couples on the 20 years we’ve been visiting.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 21/08/2022 19:56

SizzlerFizzler · 21/08/2022 19:54

There was a period about ten years ago where there was a stream of books on how to dress like a French woman, how to eat/stay slim like a French woman, how to raise your child as the French do. Publishing houses must have had entire departments dedicated to issuing lifestyle manuals on all things Gallic.

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A friend lent me a book called something like ‘French children don’t throw food’. A parenting book.

Biggest load of wank I’ve ever wasted my time on.

LINABE · 21/08/2022 19:57

5zeds · 21/08/2022 19:40

@LINABE minimising another’s experience is NOT softening the blow. OP knows her truth.

No. I didn't minimise her experience. I tried to explain a little bit of the culture behind her experience. It doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean the OP shouldn't be upset.

LINABE · 21/08/2022 20:01

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 21/08/2022 19:47

How can you be ‘appalled’ at the views of French people on here and then make really rude and offensive generalisations about Brits?

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Rude and offensive?? No wonder we are where we are in the UK.

Jourdain11 · 21/08/2022 20:03

RelationshipOrNot · 21/08/2022 19:50

I notice those who are angry about generalisations etc. are not engaging with the article I and another poster linked to.

One kite-flying Guardian article doesn't necessarily reflect the entire truth of the situation. I have read it and I think it is very subjective and limited.

RettyPriddle · 21/08/2022 20:03

Sorry you went through that OP and awful to hear all the other posters’ experiences. We went to Paris recently with our children, one of whom has various SN that includes autism. We found everyone very accommodating and understanding. We were in a hotel, used taxis and visited museums and restaurants and went on a river cruise (and even Disneyland 😳). All fine. I’d say similar to London in attitudes. But we may have just been lucky x

sunglassesonthetable · 21/08/2022 20:03

So Sorry OP. Sounds a miserable experience.

I can't speak for the French character but when you're a visitor you can often feel a bit self conscious and out of place anyway. There's def more staring in France.

Sounds like you were all upset. Please move past it. Tomorrow is another day. 🌻🍷

Jourdain11 · 21/08/2022 20:05

5zeds · 21/08/2022 19:27

@Jourdain11 perhaps you just don’t know what the situation is like in France for families with autistic children?
amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/france-is-50-years-behind-the-state-scandal-of-french-autism-treatment

I mean it IS years behind in its thinking and autistic people are being treated appallingly there. @Luckyloubytwo another good reason to spend your money elsewhere

I am French and my 10 year old daughter is currently being assessed. So, I have some idea.

ofwarren · 21/08/2022 20:05

That article is absolutely horrific. I never knew any of this. Those poor children.
This bit was so upsetting to read:

"In addition, the United Nations warned in 2016 that a technique called “packing” – in which an autistic child is wrapped in cold, wet sheets – amounted to “ill-treatment” but had not been legally banned and was reportedly “still practised” on some children with autism."

So unbelievably cruel.

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 21/08/2022 20:06

LINABE · 21/08/2022 20:01

Rude and offensive?? No wonder we are where we are in the UK.

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Yea saying British children have massive socialisation issues, are victims of woke parenting and are badly behaved is pretty offensive.

Im more annoyed that you clutched your pearls about PP’s French generalisations and then made some pretty big ones of your own about British people. Can you see the hypocrisy?

Original poster

Luckyloubytwo · 21/08/2022 20:06

Thank you everyone for the overwhelmingly kind comments. They have really cheered me up.

For those getting angry that I am speaking ill of the French. Like I said in my original post, we are having a wonderful time and it is a beautiful country. However, what we experienced wasn't just once but twice, in two different places, and not just the attitude of one person but of many people.

I did get very upset because a child seemingly having a 'tantrum' at 5 is very different to an older child at 9 who should know better. It makes me worry for my son, how he will be viewed as he gets older and seemingly more different.

OP posts:

Ori1 · 21/08/2022 20:06

There is a massive cultural difference between the French & the British - the French are stoic conformists, whereas the Brits are not. Any type of social behaviour that oversteps the societal norm and/or expected pattern of complicit politeness/conformism will elicit stares as it will shock them. They don’t mean to be rude- it’s just that they don’t know how to react to behaviour that doesn’t follow their “rule book” for socially acceptable patterns of interaction.