Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

[Luckyloubytwo]

We are in France at the moment and having a mostly wonderful time. DS 9 has asd but is usually fairly easy going, quiet, and you wouldn't notice he was different to other children.

However, yesterday and today he has had a huge meltdown in public. When this happens in the UK it is difficult but people generally are understanding and mimd their own business. However, here it seems to bring the whole town to a standstill. People will just stop in their tracks and stare. Today we were in a busy area and it seemed to bring everyone to a halt. We all got very upset back at the car and I just can't stop crying.

I am just feeling so upset at the attitude of the French people towards our son.

This isn’t about children behaving @XingMing its about children with neurological challenges not coping in certain situations and then them and their being made to feel alien.

Like I said earlier, I dont stare or comment, and I walk away. Your child. your decision. Cope the best way you can.

Yep - appalling to read some of the 'views' on this thread. So judgemental towards a whole nation.

Maybe learn a bit about their culture before you judge...
The staring is something the French do. Nothing is meant by it, they are naturally inquisitive.
The French will 'tell you or your children off' if they see the need, yes even if you are a complete stranger. It is considered important and necessary to point out to someone where they are going wrong in a civilised society. For us it is very rude, for them it is polite and being a good citizen.
(you might not like it but if you understand even just a little of where they are culturally different it may stop you taking it too personally. (I learnt the hard way)

Actually a few lessons could be learned from the French people and how they bring up their children... who are brought up to be respectful of others and are taught their boundaries and discipline when they are young from their parents and their teachers including being able to express themselves and debate in a respectful way at a young age as well as having good manners.Generally the family unit is still respected and important in France and children will sit at the table and eat dinner together from a very young age, it is where they learn to debate and be part of a group. This makes for a well rounded, respectful, well educated young person with a wonderful joie de vivre.
Kids from the UK are given too much rope and don't understand or respect boundaries. The outcome of decades of soft parenting/schooling/ the 'woke' movement has caused massive issues in the socialisation and behaviour of young people who have little life skills and we are perceived by the French to have bad parenting skills (although the kids that are lucky enough to have had a private education do a lot better)
Disclaimer: Generalisation.

YANBU - I'm so sorry you had this experience, Op. I've been there with my own child and it's shit.

Fuck all of them, frankly. You are doing a good job and all you need to focus on is helping your child recover from their meltdown and looking after your own well-being.

France is known for being behind the curve in their attitudes to ASD. It's their problem, not yours. Xx

FGS it’s observing the cultures of certain countries. The French don’t see staring as rude. That’s part of their culture. It’s no xenophobic

Worth remembering that for all its liberal attitudes France is still a very Catholic country and deeply conservative in its attitudes towards the family and children. arf at Catholics being unwelcoming to the disabled. You do understand that those who procreate without any attempt at contraception and abhor abortion are likely to have more disabled siblings, aunts and uncles and children/grandchildren. It isn’t being Catholic that makes the French behave this way. I think it probably is fed by their continued attitude towards autism being caused by parenting and or mental health problems rather than being inbuilt to the individual.

OP I found later primary much harder and people much less kind anyway, but I agree France isn’t particularly easy for disabled people. Fwiw if you go a little further Spain is easier.

@LINABE
The staring is something the French do. Nothing is meant by it, they are naturally inquisitive.

Haha, so true. Even after many years in the UK, my automatic reaction to any unusual situation is to stare and ask what happened. It embarrasses my husband! I'm aware that it's not considered usual/polite, but that realisation usually kicks in about 5 secs too late!

Unfortunately I think my DD2 has inherited the French curiosity gene, and doesn't have the excuse of having been brought up in France!

Staring is not considered as rude in many countries as it is in the UK so you're interpreting their behaviour differently to how it's meant. I live on the continent. I've been stared at often, sometimes I was doing something socially unacceptable (putting makeup on in public), but often it's for no reason, particularly by people much older than myself. Where I live, if you want to look intently at someone you can!
Definitely don't give them a middle finger back, those things are not equivalent at all.

Actually a few lessons could be learned from the French people and how they bring up their children... who are brought up to be respectful of others and are taught their boundaries and discipline when they are young from their parents and their teachers including being able to express themselves and debate in a respectful way at a young age as well as having good manners.

but what does that have to do with the OP's experience?

Not got an issue with the comment about staring (see above), it's all the comments along the lines of "the French are backwards and rude" that I find problematic.

I see I've cross posted with others who have explained that staring is normal in France (and quite a few other European countries).

Disclaimer: Generalisation.

@LINABE in the same way you made a generalisation, others are making generalisations too. Why does a generalisation have to be positive?

I'm quite happy to point out issues in the culture I grew up in. There are food and bad points about every culture and yes, sometimes we have to make generalisations otherwise we could never talk about anything.

No culture is beyond criticism. I think reprimanding other people's children can be good (if done appropriately). I think staring at someone is rude. I don't see how it's even a cultural thing to make a spectacle out of someone.

Others have said disability awareness is low. It's not xenophobic to point it out and they're clearly not talking about every single person. General attitudes and experiences.

Oh, that's lovely - everyone French is judgy, unenlightened, racist and sexist. And of course, saying that is not racist at all. Yeah, fuck the French, obviously

Makes a change from everyone in Britain being condemned, living in the worst place on earth, obviously. I have seen some awful attitudes to those with additional needs in many countries, the UK does seem to be far more tolerant, must be so disappointing for many!

I'm reacting to many of the other posts but I am also trying to point out that the OP doesn't have to take it so personally.

@Jourdain11 perhaps you just don’t know what the situation is like in France for families with autistic children?
amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/france-is-50-years-behind-the-state-scandal-of-french-autism-treatment

I mean it IS years behind in its thinking and autistic people are being treated appallingly there. @Luckyloubytwo another good reason to spend your money elsewhere

We are in France at the moment, generally speaking French people are incredibly rude, we've been coming here years. They aren't at all polite or courteous whether it's on the roads or in person. Last night we were in a restuarant and witnessed a woman smacking a 3 year old hard in front of a packed restaurant, no one even looked up like this disgusting behaviour was normal? I said to my husband if she does that again I'm going to intervene (i actually said Id slap her see how she likes it, i obviously would have just shouted), seems children should be seen and not heard as the horrible old saying goes.

Sorry this happened to you but I'm not surprised, love france but the people have always been rude and ive been coming here since i was a child, over 30 years.

Thanks for the heads up guys. I was thinking of taking my high-functioning autistic son to France next year but after these comments it's a definite "non" from me! PS We've been in Spain several times and no-one stared, if anything they were exceptionally kind.

@SavoirFlair Why is she BU?

OP doesn't have to take it so personally.
this is a bit like someone telling you they are experiencing racism and you telling them not to be so chippy. It IS personal ffs it’s her child.

We travelled to France in April with a child with physical disabilities and neurodevelopmental disorders. He has an SEN buggy (provided by NHS). Despite having letters from GOSH (which I had had translated into French) the number of times we were refused access via “wheelchair entries” and told to park it up as it was a pushchair was huge. No adjustments in restaurants or assistance despite emailing before,

My DH also speaks very good French so it was not just simply a language issue and it’s obvious my child is disabled,

Complete contrast to the U.K. where we literally have had no issues at theme parks/restaurants etc.

Also the poster commenting that French people teach discipline and boundaries what on earth has that got to do with Autism? You can’t disciple an autistic child to not have the condition anymore. In the same way I can’t discipline my child to walk.

I do hope you come out all guns blazing on the many threads that reduce the British, or more accurately, English people to being backward racists, I'd bet my house that you don't.

Posters on here have definitely touched a nerve all of Europe outside of the UK is supposed to be super tolerant, super enlightened, never so much as a sniff of racism according to MN, clearly they've never actually lived in any other European country bar the UK.

Anyway, @Luckyloubytwo I am sorry you have been upset, it must be so hard try to ignore it if you can.

Echoing another poster who said the French will stare at anything. We passed a really serious multi car pile on the opposite side of a motorway, our lane was operating but slower than usual to allow emergency vehicles through a gap. Cars were over turned, others just a mangled mess, people sat at the side of the road, obviously injured and being tended by emergency services. One car was screened off as firemen cut the driver out

Drivers on our side were pulling up in the Lanes, running across and standing on the central reservation to get a better view. The police were furious, yelling at them to get back or be arrested. It was as if it was a spectator event.

Actually the problem in this scenario is that they are lazy.

No. You are taking my post out of context. I was offering my experience to maybe help soften the blow a little bit for the OP. (ffs)