Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

[Luckyloubytwo]

We are in France at the moment and having a mostly wonderful time. DS 9 has asd but is usually fairly easy going, quiet, and you wouldn't notice he was different to other children.

However, yesterday and today he has had a huge meltdown in public. When this happens in the UK it is difficult but people generally are understanding and mimd their own business. However, here it seems to bring the whole town to a standstill. People will just stop in their tracks and stare. Today we were in a busy area and it seemed to bring everyone to a halt. We all got very upset back at the car and I just can't stop crying.

I am just feeling so upset at the attitude of the French people towards our son.

Dunno about France but I've been "stared out" in England when my NT child was having a random tantrum. We were in the town centre and I was just letting him cry it out. I actually sat down on a bench whilst he was crying blue in the face standing on the path.
Lots of staring. And I understand why. But my DS needed to have it out so we can have a nice day after (and we did).

Don't people everywhere stare/scowl/flinch at tantrums? 🤷

I'm really sorry op.
this brings back memories of a family holiday to France when I was 15. I remember mum complaining that the locals kept staring at me and one day she went mad, shouting 'voyeur!' at them. She doesn't speak French but hopefully she got her point across. It really put her off France actually. I don't have autism and don't know why they kept staring!

Thanks for illustrating my point

It is up to parents to a degree but is there never a time when you get caught out by something unexpected? Mine is asd and is very prone to meltdowns, I like to try and plan as much as possible, put things in place to be successful etc however we do sometimes have a series of random things going wrong/ not as planned which can sometimes acculmulate and set him off. My alternative is never going out at all I’m which case he’ll never get any better at managing.

This is the kind of thing that seems to come from people who are fairly high functioning. Those with children whose behaviour is actually not able to be integrated in a casual way are generally hoping that it can be modified, so maybe their kids have some hope of a bit of a social life or a job, or an ability to get a haircut or a dental check-up, or just so the parents can go out in public without planning as if they are attacking Fort Knox.

There is a balance between accepting difference and the need to fit in and it doesn't help to try and push too far either way.

Oh and my boys are both hyperactive ADHD. They know how to behave in shops and restaurants and it is up to us as parents to make it a success (exercise before going to restaurant/not having a 3 course meal plus coffee etc)

Dropped into a different country, on the hoof, and without the usual routines, travelling is another level of challenge. I think we can understand just how difficult it is for OP to maintain the right levels of stimulation for her DC.

@MangyInseam I’m not quite sure what point you were trying to make about @gnilliwdog s post. I agree with her that it is important to know the history and present attitudes to disability when you visit a new place just as you would attitudesto any other characteristics.

I’m on holiday in France at the moment with 5 kids. All are exuberant, loud and active, the way kids should be

To be honest, from what you've written I'm not surprised they've been told off. Children are not "supposed to be loud, exuberant and active" at all times, there is a time and a place for that! Beach, yep, sitting in a restaurant, no. They need to learn to use quieter voices, sit still, eat nicely... Surely you don't let your children act the same way in a restaurant as you would in a park?! I'd be annoyed too if you were allowing them to be "loud, exuberant and active" everywhere, regardless of what country you were in.

@gnilliwdog

My dd had aba therapy from 3 (USA). I can't prove it but I believe that is why she can fit into society, she's worked, she's currently at university. We were told she would be non verbal, she isn't.

My take is that in the U.K. they do not want to pay for aba so discredit it

Correlation does not imply causation.

I know plenty of autistic people who had no ABA who were expected to be non verbal who now have jobs or went to university who didn't have ABA.

ABA is utterly cruel and I'm glad it isn't used often in this country.

www.spectrumnews.org/features/deep-dive/controversy-autisms-common-therapy/

Correlation does not imply causation.

I don't know anything about this subject, I haven't heard the term before now, but I'm pretty shocked that you're telling a parent
who's child has had this treatment her entire life , what to think , in a trite one sentence answer.

@ofwarren

@sunglassesonthetable i think it’s probably because you don’t know anything about the subject that you’re shocked. ABA isn’t widely accepted because of what it is and how it’s implemented. I’m fairly shocked anyone told a parent of a high functioning autistic (ie someone who has autism but no learning disability) that their child would be non-verbal. I’m not at all shocked that people are expressing their disapproval of boot camp type therapy, which is how the often 40plus hours of rigid therapy described as “ABA” is delivered to preschoolers. It’s a hugely controversial approach now.

@5zeds

I take your point. I'll but out.

Apologies for any offence caused.

As another French lady here I’m sorry to see you getting a hard time for rightly standing up to some pretty poor and unpleasant stereotyping.

If we are going to make individual judgements based on national data though, I’ll do the same, to give an example of how unacceptable it is.

How would this go down “OP, the British are on average much fatter than the French, which comes from your poor diets. Could the people have perhaps been staring more because of this?”

Now, this is no less pleasant than some of the anti-French attitudes on here, so will people be as accepting of it?

You didn’t offend me at all @sunglassesonthetable I was just trying to explain. Honestly as an idea ABA is fairly mainstream, you look at the behaviour someone is displaying, work out why, and then modify it. It’s teaching isn’t it? It’s what it has come to mean in this context that is difficult. People are very unaware of just how badly autistic people are treated and have been treated. I don’t mean in France particularly or anywhere, it everywhere. We need more visibility. For example in the states I believe there are still schools where children wear backpacks that give them electric shocks when they misbehave. In France it seems to be getting into school, and in the uk often staying in school is a problem.

Its quite clear that you don't know anything about it.
I'm diagnosed with aspergers as is my eldest and my middle child is on the pathway. My eldest brother has classic autism and so do 2 of my cousins.
ABA is like dog training your children.

Read it this thread makes me so glad that the UK sees autism as just being different to others rather than a problem that needs fixing

Its quite clear that you don't know anything about it.
I'm diagnosed with aspergers as is my eldest and my middle child is on the pathway. My eldest brother has classic autism and so do 2 of my cousins.
ABA is like dog training your children.

I explained and apologised. And I made no judgment on the methods. Only judging another parent so harshly.

Same
Just need to sort out the horrendously long waiting lists for assessment and have better support systems in place, especially for adults.
I do like how you can get some support in schools even without diagnosis. My child on the waiting list is allowed to wear his ear defenders at school if he needs and can go in a different entrance on particularly bad days.

Sorry, I didn't read what you wrote afterwards

@ofwarren

You and your kids sound like an absolute nightmare!!
You’re the sort of family I move away from sharpish whether I’m eating in a restaurant in the uk, or on holiday abroad.

Exuberant indeed!! More like loud bratty kids with no boundaries that others look on at in horror!!

Cafes/restaurants are really welcoming to kids BECAUSE French children are expected to sit properly, eat the same food as adults etc. If you weren't welcome then take a look at how you are all behaving.

I bet they're not 'welcoming' to autistic French children.

I'm sorry you and your son had to experience that.

French friends tell me that conformity and obedience are highly valued in child-rearing in France. Anything that deviates from "well behaved" is very much looked down upon. Not the best approach in my opinion...