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Original poster

Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

573 replies

Luckyloubytwo · 21/08/2022 17:03

We are in France at the moment and having a mostly wonderful time. DS 9 has asd but is usually fairly easy going, quiet, and you wouldn't notice he was different to other children.

However, yesterday and today he has had a huge meltdown in public. When this happens in the UK it is difficult but people generally are understanding and mimd their own business. However, here it seems to bring the whole town to a standstill. People will just stop in their tracks and stare. Today we were in a busy area and it seemed to bring everyone to a halt. We all got very upset back at the car and I just can't stop crying.

I am just feeling so upset at the attitude of the French people towards our son.

OP posts:
Jourdain11 · 21/08/2022 21:52

Another thing I said at the beginning, which no one seems to consider at all - if a child starts screaming or whatever and you cannot understand what they or the parents are saying (because of the language) are you not naturally going to wonder what is going going on? As in, the people around OP could not understand what was happening or what the problem was because they don't understand English, or not well enough to follow, so they automatically stared to try to gauge the situation.

A similar thing happened to me with my DD in France. I was speaking to her in English because she was very upset, crying and trying to hit herself, so I was having to hold her to stop her hurting herself. And people were staring a bit because I guess they maybe thought I was mistreating her horribly, or that she was about to go on a rampage and start attacking people! I started to speak French and as soon as they could hear that I was saying things like, "try to take a breath - count to three" etc, they completely lost interest (or at least, they stopped looking and wondering).

The changes of provision have been in place for 4 years; only 2 of these have been impacted by Covid and people haven't "been inside" for the whole of those 2 years either..

SizzlerFizzler · 21/08/2022 21:54

So you admit you're conflating the OP with all other commenters whose opinions you don't appreciate. That makes things a bit clearer.

adriftabroad · 21/08/2022 21:55

Stick to Butlins love.

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 21:56

@SizzlerFizzler no I am literally reading her OP - have you not?

Here's a reminder: Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

SizzlerFizzler · 21/08/2022 21:57

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 21:56

@SizzlerFizzler no I am literally reading her OP - have you not?

Here's a reminder: Crying over French attitude to my autistic son

and that has you very upset. how awful for you.

SizzlerFizzler · 21/08/2022 21:58

Doesn't change the fact that the OP has not been xenophobic though.

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 21:59

Bad bolding there!

OP said she had two bad experiences but then doubled down with this:

However, what we experienced wasn't just once but twice, in two different places, and not just the attitude of one person but of many people.

She is not apologising for her generalisation but coming back to original opinion.

PlacidPenelope · 21/08/2022 21:59

However all this UK GOOD - FRANCE BAD is a bit simplistic

Do please post this on the numerous threads slagging off the UK and the people in it and comparing both unfavourably to every other European country won't you?

SizzlerFizzler · 21/08/2022 22:01

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 21:59

Bad bolding there!

OP said she had two bad experiences but then doubled down with this:

However, what we experienced wasn't just once but twice, in two different places, and not just the attitude of one person but of many people.

She is not apologising for her generalisation but coming back to original opinion.

Why would she apologise when she is recounting her actual experiences? She should lie to save your feelings? Be sensible

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 22:01

@PlacidPenelope - I have no idea what you are on about

@SizzlerFizzler - Can you please send me a checklist of what sweeping statements I am not allowed (or allowed) to get upset about please

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 22:03

Being sensible would be not naming a whole frigging nationality in your original post.

Her OP could have read: "Crying over attitude to my autistic son" - why mention France

She could have said:

"Crying over attitude to my autistic son whilst on holiday"

It didn't

Notgoingbacktofuture · 21/08/2022 22:04

LINABE · 21/08/2022 19:13

Yep - appalling to read some of the 'views' on this thread. So judgemental towards a whole nation.

Maybe learn a bit about their culture before you judge...
The staring is something the French do. Nothing is meant by it, they are naturally inquisitive.
The French will 'tell you or your children off' if they see the need, yes even if you are a complete stranger. It is considered important and necessary to point out to someone where they are going wrong in a civilised society. For us it is very rude, for them it is polite and being a good citizen.
(you might not like it but if you understand even just a little of where they are culturally different it may stop you taking it too personally. (I learnt the hard way)

Actually a few lessons could be learned from the French people and how they bring up their children... who are brought up to be respectful of others and are taught their boundaries and discipline when they are young from their parents and their teachers including being able to express themselves and debate in a respectful way at a young age as well as having good manners.Generally the family unit is still respected and important in France and children will sit at the table and eat dinner together from a very young age, it is where they learn to debate and be part of a group. This makes for a well rounded, respectful, well educated young person with a wonderful joie de vivre.
Kids from the UK are given too much rope and don't understand or respect boundaries. The outcome of decades of soft parenting/schooling/ the 'woke' movement has caused massive issues in the socialisation and behaviour of young people who have little life skills and we are perceived by the French to have bad parenting skills (although the kids that are lucky enough to have had a private education do a lot better)
Disclaimer: Generalisation.

Show quote history

Well, everything needs a balanced point. I do wish the French are more understanding and could tolerate more people who are different from them. Usually they are curious about the difference, but they DO want to you conform their ways of living. Rules and red tapes are everywhere. Sometimes are for good reasons, but some other times just lack of tolerance and flexibility.

We moved to the UK because as DH will NEVER EVER make the progress he deserves for his career simply because of his skin colour. He once honestly asked a recruitment agent and confirmed his fear. Then we moved the following year.

I love France with all my heart for its many brilliance and I'm also aware a large proportion of its prosperity came from its binding to what they believe and being self aware for what they do. Just if you were not one of them, it's extremely difficult to be accepted.

Sorry it's a bit off topic. But just want to throw some personal experience in to balance the heavily critical views.

SizzlerFizzler · 21/08/2022 22:05

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 22:03

Being sensible would be not naming a whole frigging nationality in your original post.

Her OP could have read: "Crying over attitude to my autistic son" - why mention France

She could have said:

"Crying over attitude to my autistic son whilst on holiday"

It didn't

clue: because she's in France and she's drawing a comparison with how people react to her son's meltdowns when in the UK.

sunglassesonthetable · 21/08/2022 22:06

I am just feeling so upset at the attitude of the French people towards our son.

Personally, I think the OP is referring to the French people she came into contact with not 'the French people of France'. And I think that's the obvious explanation.

@crimesagainstwine

Notgoingbacktofuture · 21/08/2022 22:07

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 22:03

Being sensible would be not naming a whole frigging nationality in your original post.

Her OP could have read: "Crying over attitude to my autistic son" - why mention France

She could have said:

"Crying over attitude to my autistic son whilst on holiday"

It didn't

A parent travelling to a foreign nation with her SEN DC of course would feel particularly vulnerable in a foreign environment. I really understand why she reacted the way she did. No need to go beyond reasonable to pick her words.

Mahanii · 21/08/2022 22:08

You're all having an intellectual debate on xenophobia and appropriate attitudes to different cultures, I'm just giggling at genital squeeze @IncessantNameChanger

TheGander · 21/08/2022 22:08

I don’t think this thread is french bashing, it is looking at a specific issue in french culture/ society, the discomfort with visible difference. Of course all cultures have this to a certain degree, it’s just it can feel starker in France especially if you are a foreigner. There are many things France does wonderfully but this is not one of them.
www.lejdd.fr/Societe/lexil-force-en-belgique-des-francais-autistes-3948435
I hope things are improving, it it is a fact that there has been 1)poor recognition and understanding of autism in society at large and in education and 2) poor provision of services, as the article above outlines

sunglassesonthetable · 21/08/2022 22:09

*Being sensible would be not naming a whole frigging nationality in your original post.

Her OP could have read: "Crying over attitude to my autistic son" - why mention France

She could have said:

"Crying over attitude to my autistic son whilst on holiday"

It didn't*

Why not mention France? I think some cultural differences do stand out. The staring particularly.

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 22:13

However the OP has not mentioned how UK treat her and her DS when he has similar in UK?

I really don't think (IMHO) that the reactions are much different - she perhaps doesn't notice because she is o "familiar ground" and has set routines (as in not on holidays)

Holidays whether abroad or not throw up the unfamiliar.

I would ask OP if her experiences in France are so out of the ordinary compared to when they are out of their familiar settings?

5zeds · 21/08/2022 22:15

I don’t think the uk is brilliant at being inclusive but I do think the French have a particularly poor take on autism and it’s good news that they are trying to leave that psychological model behind.

SizzlerFizzler · 21/08/2022 22:16

In her opening post she says 'When this happens in the UK it is difficult but people generally are understanding and mimd their own business. However, here it seems to bring the whole town to a standstill.'

Fifife · 21/08/2022 22:16

crimesagainstwine · 21/08/2022 21:50

The OP has had two (albeit two too many) bad experiences with her child whilst on holiday in France.

She has assumed it is bad because of how how the "host nation" reacted - she has then said "French people" as though we are an homogenous lump.

She has not listened when people talk about French way of interacting or developments in provision.

She has stated it has been very upsetting for her - I don't doubt it has and feel empathy. However how many times has she experienced this in her home country or other countries? I would be suprised if it is never.

She loves her holiday in France - great - that's good to know. However she and other posters have implied that we are some backwater nation that is neither caring or empathetic. She and others have judged French policy and school provision on one 2018 Guardian article.

And finally - just because the UK does neurodivergence different - why totally dismiss the French (or other nations) approach? There may be middle-ground

However all this UK GOOD - FRANCE BAD is a bit simplistic

And the poster who said all SEN children they knew were locked in some French institution or attic - now that is FUCKING offensive

The bit about meeting in the middle is wrong. Psychoanalytics blames the mother for autistic traits and likens it to some kind of childhood schizophrenia. Autism cannot be cured nor is it an illness in its self..

Kendodd · 21/08/2022 22:18

Could someone tell me what's so bad about staring anyway?
In some cultures starring at people is fine, in others, like ours, it's not fine and considered rude. Why are we so sure we're right on this?
I think YABU op.

hennaoj · 21/08/2022 22:20

If you can and if your son likes theme parks, go to Port Aventura in Spain. It's lovely there, loads to do and they are great with Autistic children. My youngest was 3 when we went and as got a special wristband as he has trouble queuing. When we tried to go in the regular queue for one ride because it wasn't very big, the operator spotted his wristband and told us to go in the disabled queue!

Dontevenstart · 21/08/2022 22:21

Well, at least the French didn’t shoot themselves in foot whilst stabbing themselves in the eyes with a spoon like all that British common sense dictated they should. You had a bad time on holiday with your autistic child and for that I’m sorry. But get off your horse and appreciate that, ironically, people are different in how they deal with things.