Partner’s teenagers

[PostcardsFromPalma]

I’ve been with my partner for 2 years. We are a same sex couple. We have started living together for the first time this summer. This is a temporary summer only arrangement so we can spend more time together.

I am not working this summer, my partner is still working full time.

I take care of 90% or more of the household chores, including hoovering, bathroom, kitchen, dishes, changing sheets… My partner handles cooking of evening dinners, I then clean up. My partner also does about 40 or 50% of clothes washing, hanging, and putting away.

We split household food and outings costs. I am still paying all bills for my own home. My partner does not want me to contribute to bills, although I have offered.

My partner has a child, 15 years old living with us 50% of the time. There is an older sibling who is with us ad hoc weekends and holidays. Both young people have significant others who often stay over weekends. None do any household chores at all.

The 15 year old has been attending a summer school 5 days a week and gets up very early for this. Usually my partner wakes up at the same time and they spend some quality time chatting.

This morning, my partner seemed rather annoyed and asked what my plans were for the day, I said apart from the usual chores, air was going to play it by ear… my partner said I should offer to do more, for example getting up with 15 year old in the morning so they are not alone before leaving the house, and which would allow my partner a lie-in.

I felt this was said in a hostile manner, almost like an order to do this, and somehow I felt uncomfortable, especially given it was said in the context of suggesting I am not doing enough. I feel I do rather a lot, part of it is cleaning up after the children.

Is it me who is being unreasonable? I am willing to look at this from different angles before speaking with my partner this evening.

Totally understandable why you contacted her, you were at your most vulnerable and she would have known this too, she was also not in control as you contacted her. Her non response would possibly be a punishment for you ending the relationship and for contacting her. I suspect she will contact you another day, try and ignore what interpretation she puts on you contacting her as she will try and use it in her favour. Remember that no response is a powerful reply.
Hope you are feeling better, be kind to yourself. Take care xxx

I absolutely agree that I’ll be hearing from her, and this time she knows the dynamics have changed.

In some of the text messages she’d sent to me, she has said she missed our friendship, and offered what seemed to be a brief real apology where she said she took “full responsibility” for her behaviour and that basically she knows it must not and can never happen again. I know how much that must have cost her, and yet still I didn’t engage. In her mind she would have thought a full apology would be enough. I was protecting myself from getting hurt again, but that must have been excruciating for her - to humble oneself and feel rejected. If it was a fraction of what I’m feeling now.

I have a lot of compassion for her.

When she does approach me again, judging by her texts today, I think definitely no more apologies or making amends, she would think she doesn’t need to… I have presented myself out of the blue, just like that. I really wouldn’t say I could be certain about what she might do next… she is fond of punishments when she feels hurt, after all.

Kanaloa
You’re a better woman than me. I couldn’t be arsed spending my time off from work paying full bills at my own home and then doing the lion’s share of cleaning up after a partner and their teenagers AND THEN being told I wasn’t doing enough for them. With a partner and an older teenager it should be equally shared

I’d go back to your own home. Let her look after her own teenage kids and do her own hoovering and clean up after her own cooking, and you relax in your time away from work

^This. You're in doormat territory and that your partner even made this request, and not in a pleasant manner either, shows that she knows you're a pushover for a control freak.

Just go home. Love really does not transcend all, that mindset is for storybooks not real life

I would ask your partner if they can be specific about what it is they need you to do that you're not already doing.

I have asked, the only clear answers I have received are that I am expected to join 100% of family meals and also outings
Blimey. Is your partner your sergeant-major?

At the moment, I do about 90%, because I sometimes like a couple of hours here or there to myself.
Perfectly normal & reasonable to need (not "want") time to yourself.

My partner is particularly unhappy on the rare occasions I have missed an outing with the children.
Are you living in a totalitarian regime? Why does your partner want you to sacrifice all your personal autonomy to her demands?
What form does her "unhappiness" take?

I’ve always thought the children might prefer having a bit of time alone with their parent without me along 100% of the time… my partner said this wasn’t a problem because they like me, and anyway, they bring their partners everywhere, too… and that if they needed a private word, they would say so.
She says, she says, she says.
Does she make everybody's decisions for them?
How does she respond to the word "no" OP? Or do you avoid saying it to her?
Are her teens ever allowed to say "no" to her?

There is a defiant reluctance on my partner’s part to do things solo with the kids. I don’t know why, although I’ve asked. Main answer has been so that we can have family time together.
But ... families don't spend ALL their time together.
Why is your partner so weird about trying to enforce this?

Frankly, you sound more like a live-in maid than a partner.
The peremptory demand that you get up at Stupid O'Clock to spend time with a teen is bonkers. I suspect your partner is less concerned about "quality time for 15 year old & OP" than she is about wanting a lie-in.
It's not like one of you HAS to be up to supervise because you have a toddler, is it?

I get that she's refused to accept money for bills while you are not working & still have your own home expenses to budget for. But how much of that is about control? Is she comfortable with that set up because it helps her justify how outrageously controlling she is being to you?

Apologies OP - it was early when I started reading your thread & I didn't notice the timeline or how many pages it had already run to.

Little point putting in my 2p worth now about all that went on at her home, as you have done all the right things & got yourself out of there, & I've seen a lot of PP responses which cover nearly everything I would have said anyway ...

So here are these for your recent upsetting physical health issue ...
& here are there, for your mental health - because you can eat & drink what you damn well please now :)

A PP observed way upthread that "you are noticing more than you give yourself credit for." I agree!
You've done amazingly well. Not just in spotting & analysing the red flags - but that huge emotional leap of - hold on - why is all my focus on her, & what I can do to make this right again - when the only fix for my own sanity is to pull the plug?

Your ex is one of the most breathtakingly micromanaging coercive controllers I've ever read about on here. And that includes the arsehole of an H who made his OP a chore spreadsheet which she had to email him on his extensive business travels abroad - with before & after photos. She wasn't allowed out on her own either, & his financial abuse extended to ensuring she didn't have access to enough cash to have even a coffee with a friend.

I suspect you could have ended up in a similar way.
All those good points you listed in that long update? LOVE BOMBING & FAVOUR SHARKING (see Gavin de Becker - Gift of Fear).
And I'm harping on because I have every expectation that when she feels you have been sufficiently punished, she will run the entire gamut of The Script & start Hoovering you - lonerwolf.com/hoovering/

Above all OP, please do NOT beat yourself up for a moment of weakness after your scary & exhausting day at the clinic/surgery. Because you are clearly an astute & quick study, who takes a lot of personal responsibility for herself - so I worry that you might read the Hoovering link & berate yourself with something like "but I called her! I must be the Hooverer!"
YOU ARE NOT.
Remember PP's words "You are a radiator. Your partner is a drain."
Stay away. Because she is not your friend, & you will never be 'just friends' with someone who is this manipulative, intelligent, controlling & determined.

ooops - Hoovering link broken, try this one -
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/addiction-and-recovery/202105/spotting-the-hoovering-techniques-narcissist

@KettrickenSmiled,

”Blimey. Is your partner your sergeant-major?”

Very similar to one of the titles for different types of abuser in the book Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft - The drill sergeant. She didn’t fit that perfectly but bits of it rang some bells.

I used to joke to her that I felt like I’d moved myself into boot camp! I meant mainly the exercise at the time, most days we would play badminton, cycle, walk… that part I absolutely loved though. I really miss exercising
together so much, that’s when we had the most fun, that and when we got away for the weekend.

“What form does her "unhappiness" take?”

She hardly ever said anything very clear, apart from something to the effect of, I wish you’d come or I’m disappointed you didn’t… but there would be general bad mood and irritability, snappish, barking when responding to simple neutral things. Getting up at the crack of dawn and asking me to go out walking with her (she walks or runs when upset), and then sulks the rest of the day if I had preferred to sleep and go later. There would be throwaway remarks like, “I do wonder if you ever put yourself out for me…” implying I’m selfish and lazy.

“Are her teens ever allowed to say "no" to her?”

I’ve never personally heard that word from their mouths, they are remarkably compliant and obliging for teenagers. They are sweet and well adjusted from what I could tell. She does out a lot of time and effort into them and rarely says no to them herself, but they have routines and boundaries in place that I’ve never seen them push or challenge. They are not allowed to help themselves to what’s in the fridge for example.

“Does she make everybody's decisions for them.”

Yes, pretty much. She does generally make good and kind loving decisions though, she is devoted to family life. She’s very solid, reliable and hardworking. I think that’s why the teenagers have turned out so well. Perhaps some control is good for youngsters, but I found it difficult to be dealt with as strictly as they were!

A couple of times, on the way out for a walk or something, I may be two or five minutes behind leaving out of the door, she would be silently agitated and I could feel the irritation and impatience coming off her… she would then comment that she had raised a family already and she really didn’t want to go back to bearding people out of the door and reminding them of the time. If it a walk, I don’t see why if we left 2 minutes later why we can’t come back 2 minutes earlier (say, for example if it was her lunch break). Five minutes is hardly going to signal the end of the world, and going for a walk is supposed to be enjoyable!

This routine at the door got so bad that I bought elasticated shoe laces so I could just slip my trainers on and off and not feel her looming over me whilst I’m bent over tying my shoe laces. There was something very uncomfortable in it.
Apparently these kind of shoe laces are bought for children and the elderly or infirm! Just what had it come to ffs!

“I get that she's refused to accept money for bills while you are not working & still have your own home expenses to budget for. But how much of that is about control? Is she comfortable with that set up because it helps her justify how outrageously controlling she is being to you?”

This is one of the things I choose to believe was genuine. I was with her because she could very often be kind and thoughtful. I am accepting the idea that she was not all good, but neither was she all bad. I have many faults myself.

“The peremptory demand that you get up at Stupid O'Clock to spend time with a teen is bonkers. I suspect your partner is less concerned about "quality time for 15 year old & OP" than she is about wanting a lie-in.”

Yep, this was straight up cheeky. I knew it, but it seemed a perfectly normal request, or rather - demand, to her. It was all couched in the expectation of family-hold. As I said some pages ago, I think she just expected me to be an immediate second parent when the children spend their alternate week with her. That’s why I came here to get objective opinions!

Forgot the most important one…

”How does she respond to the word "no" OP? Or do you avoid saying it to her?”

With a great deal of upset, sometimes crying. Actually she did this in our first weeks together… she wanted to go away for the weekend, but I felt it was too soon and wanted to progress the relationship slowly. She spent a long time trying to change my mind, about half a day of constant texting back and forth. I felt like pressure. I could tell she was genuinely upset (feeling rejected) and tried to reassure her I liked her and do want to spend time with her but to be patient in getting to know each other.

It did really make me think twice back then and I put a little more space between us, but we moved on from there and didn’t have anymore hiccups.

But when I don’t respond to her advances in bed, there is often loud fidgeting, whistling, singing, and general bouncing around, designed to keep me awake I think… I can only guess she thinks if she doesn’t pressurise verbally (I’d asked her not to do that), then she felt okay pressuring by other means! A loophole if you will. I could hardly tell her to be still and be quiet, if she seemed to be jolly and happy! …but I knew she wasn’t, she was annoyed she wasn’t getting her release, and it was my fault. And I certainly wasn’t depriving her, her needs were beyond what I could cope with.

I’d chatted with her that it was okay to masturbate or to use a toy, even if I’m in bed with her and I didn’t want her to feel she couldn’t express herself in her own bedroom, and that I not only wouldn’t mind but would be pleased she was pleased. She didn’t do this. Only on one of our last disastrous evenings together, after one of her long haranguing bullying diatribes that had gone on for a couple about an hour and a half. I almost felt nauseas in fight or flight mode.

Hope you wake up feeling a bit better having rested comfortably.

I found a lump about 20 years ago and was given the all clear in a week thankfully.

But I felt very fragile for that week as I had young children and was pregnant at the time.

I was very sore in the area, so take care.

It is a blessing that she didn't come over.

You are much better off without her.

Spoil yourself.

This routine at the door got so bad that I bought elasticated shoe laces so I could just slip my trainers on and off and not feel her looming over me whilst I’m bent over tying my shoe laces. There was something very uncomfortable in it.
Apparently these kind of shoe laces are bought for children and the elderly or infirm! Just what had it come to ffs!
Oh goodness I stopped breathing reading that.
(Can you tell I've been there/done that?!)
Yes, this is your entire relationship in a nutshell. Micromanaging, "my way or the highway" - suffocating. And so, so easy to fall into without even realising that you fell.

With a great deal of upset, sometimes crying. Actually she did this in our first weeks together… she wanted to go away for the weekend, but I felt it was too soon and wanted to progress the relationship slowly. She spent a long time trying to change my mind, about half a day of constant texting back and forth. I felt like pressure. I could tell she was genuinely upset (feeling rejected) and tried to reassure her I liked her and do want to spend time with her but to be patient in getting to know each other.
That is ... very extreme pressure.
Which you sensibly backed off from.
Until ... she Hoovered you back in.
Please don't imagine for one moment that this is implied criticism of YOU dear OP. It is another warning though! - I'm sure you've followed the link so are forearmed now.

But when I don’t respond to her advances in bed, there is often loud fidgeting, whistling, singing, and general bouncing around, designed to keep me awake I think… I can only guess she thinks if she doesn’t pressurise verbally (I’d asked her not to do that), then she felt okay pressuring by other means! A loophole if you will. I could hardly tell her to be still and be quiet, if she seemed to be jolly and happy! …but I knew she wasn’t, she was annoyed she wasn’t getting her release, and it was my fault. And I certainly wasn’t depriving her, her needs were beyond what I could cope with.
3 times a day is pathological.
I mean sure, if that's what floats your boat, get it done by DIY, don't impose it on someone else!
But it fits with her near-teetotal, weight-conscious pathology. Only 1 meal a day, tiny portions, & 10 minute supermarket discussions over a single item being allowed in the basket ...
Basket fucking CASE more like. Don't succumb to any requests to meet in person to "talk it though" "make sure you understand me" "show you how sorry I am" etc.

Note also the rampant, stinking hypocrisy.
Oh yes darling I hear you & I will never use words to berate you for not giving me enough sex. I'll just make your life really uncomfortable & punish you via sleep deprivation, & sulking, bad temper & denials the next day.
See also - my kids can have a glass of wine/beer because I am Cool Mum. But my partner can't, because ... Reasons.

Also - it was kind of you to respond to my questions, thank you!
And reassuring to see how much you've taken on board & digested already - but you DO NOT have to faithfully reply if you are fed up, or bored, or want a break, or even just want to leave your own thread. You don't owe us random PP's a thing, d'ya hear me? We're all just relieved you've got away from this monster.
You KNOW how she would have escalated, you would have become her exhausted & mentally ruined creature.

Sounds like an impossibility difficult week, goodness. Did you have someone at home to help you? Thank God it’s behind you. So brilliant you got the all clear, must have been a tremendous relief! Did you celebrate?

I’m tempted to stay indoors the couple of days while it heals. I was told not to get it wet. With its location, I’m not sure how I can wash my hair and shower and keep it dry, and I don’t like going out un-showered. I was supposed to meet a friend and her young daughter for dinner tonight (so it wouldn’t be nice to talk about it in front of a child). I’ll spruce up with a wash cloth, but I’m trying to keep that arm still because wider movements hurt and I want it to heal quickly. There will be areas I won’t be able to reach comfortably. If one has an intimate partner at home, it’s something they could help with if they’re kind.

Bought sushi on the way home yesterday I’m looking forward to having, plenty of provisions at home so don’t necessarily need to go out today. I don’t know if I vent be very chirpy for my friend and daughter who have travelled to have a nice weekend. I’ll feel bad cancelling. Not entirely sure what I’ll do exactly.

@KettrickenSmiled, it’s actually really helpful to be getting all this lovely feedback and support from the wonderful people here. I feel less alone. I think that’s what calmed me enough to sleep last night, a good five hours in the end. Thank you all!

“Oh goodness I stopped breathing reading that.”

How awful, I’m so sorry. It’s really surprising to me how common this experience is… what happened to you? No pressure to answer if you’d rather not discuss it here.

The difference here being a woman doing it, in a same sex relationship. The dynamics are somewhat different. More tears and less intimidation for example, when she wants to get her way and all else has failed. Lots of other differences, too. There are not really many books or resources for coercive control in same sex female relationships. I would love to read a thread here on something like that.

Nothing wrong with a couple of days lying low at home OP.

As to disappointing your friend ... you didn't know that your appointment as going totake 6 hours, be somewhat invasive, & leave you sore & with limited movement, did you?!

If she is a good friend, could you simply say to her what you wrote in your latest update? If we were mates & you told me that, no matter how far I'd travelled, I'd volunteer to pick up a takeaway for you, & check that you weren't too wiped out.
That would honestly be the main concern - that even if you didn;t want to cancel entirely, that you were able to go to bed at 9pm if you felt like it.

The difference here being a woman doing it, in a same sex relationship. The dynamics are somewhat different.

yes, the whole way through (& OMG what a roller coaster. Is it ok to make light & suggest you could novelise it at some point? - you deffo have the writing skill) I was thinking "if this was a bloke ... no! she never! ... fuckSAKE if this was a bloke ... OP call 999 & get out pronto!" ...

So glad your thread is cathartic & helping you dump enough 'stuff' to be able to relax/sleep OP.

How awful, I’m so sorry. It’s really surprising to me how common this experience is… what happened to you? No pressure to answer if you’d rather not discuss it here.

OK so ... [insert ironic scared/angry/laughing emoji] ...
2 decades of coercive control from birth, leading to CSA through puberty to mid-teens. Female perp.
Obviously that skewed m'boundaries, to put it mildly, so accidentally married my mother, cue 2 decades of coercive control, alcoholism (his), financial abuse, workshy cuntery, culminating in suicide threats, (his, multiple, faked) police, secure unit & mental health team (him - & he seriously played them - social services working background), lawyer, barrister, judge, injunction, months of death threats ... aaaaaaaaaaaand finalised divorce.

This was bloody years ago now & I'm fine. So you will be too. And I was happy to respond because 1) see catharsis, above & 2) this is where you could have got to had you not been so damn smart, resourceful, & determined to face facts & not fool yourself.
Huge congratulations to you dear Postcards xx

There are not really many books or resources for coercive control in same sex female relationships. I would love to read a thread here on something like that.

So would I, & so glad you read your Lundy Bancroft & interpreted it correctly through the gender lens.

I'd prefer not to see it in AIBU though. Too much lesbophobia round these parts.

Absolutely this.

A good friend will only be thinking of you and your comfort.

I have a great husband and he was 100% supportive, while scared too.

I remember my stress coming out at night during sleep as I had awful dreams of leaving my children behind.

Awful.
The relief was huge and we were both wrecked after it.

The overwhelming majority of women get benign results, which I will be hoping for you.

@KettrickenSmiled, What an ordeal. I am so sorry that happened to you. Your first decades on this earth must have felt like winning the lottery of life in the worst possible way. I hope your next decades make of for those in abundance. If you’ve come out of all of that with your sanity intact, that is a major miracle by itself. You are so strong. Have a big bunch of flowers from me. 💐

@billy1966, so pleased your husband was there with you through it, bless him.

How does one go about finding a nice partner? You’ve obviously cracked it, @billy1966!

And yes it’s totally fine to make light! One thing is for sure, things have not been boring lately. It’s that Chinese proverb “May you live in interesting times”, is it a blessing or a curse, yikes! 😂

There definitely is a bit of luck I suppose.
I believe there are more than one person for each of us out there.

I admire kindness, humour, loyalty, generosity in a person.

I am married a very long time and through ups and downs my husband's kindness has remained.

How someone treats you when you are ill is a big marker.

How the react to being told No also is.

You sound like such a lovely woman.
As a poster wrote earlier in this thread @Kanaloa, there is no way I would be cleaning up after someone else's children during my holidays.

She was a deeply unpleasant woman.
The food, bed times, showers, sex, the door thing.
She was a complete fxxking horror.

Having boundaries is important.
Assholes don't like them.

So having strong boundaries and high standards can help you to attract people who will treat you well and having them will give you the strength to blow them off when you see them behave as she did.

You definitely need to work on your boundaries.

You need to work on spoting awful behaviour and ditching the person when you see it.

There is a cheap bood called the Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.
Its about helping you to learn to use and listen to your gut, to protect yourself from all sorts of abusive relationships.

I bought the book after watching him on Oprah as I wanted my children to read it.

Well worth picking up and having a look at.

I didn’t realise my boundaries need work. I never saw myself as a pushover. I thought I was pretty strong, many of her worst behaviours I nipped in the bud. I think there was the potential for this to get a lot worse if she were not nervous of pushing it too far and causing the end of the relationship.

She even said she aired her needs through picking fights because she felt scared to sit down and talk to me normally. Months ago, she would wait until I’d had a couple of glasses of wine and pick a fight about that, then in the course of that would mention what I hadn’t done or what she wanted me to do.

Maybe she perceived me as more vulnerable then, or if I did complain about her behaviour, she would say it was because I was drunk or my drinking caused it.
Very in line with picking a fight when I’m trying to sleep or already sleeping.

It’s this cowardice she always talks about… when I get upset with her, she likes to paint herself as a scared nervous voiceless victim of some kind. Again different from a male heterosexual controlling relationship.

I think she knows what she’s doing and is ashamed to do it when she perceives me as fully present.

It’s so bloody strange. I have never before encountered this behaviour! WTH?

She has texted she can pop in today very briefly. I told her not to worry and to carry on with her plans as normal and I will be fine, and I feel much better now and let’s pretend I never texted because it was an impulsive moment during a difficult few hours and not a good idea. She said okay… then, that it was the right thing for me to contact her and I shouldn’t feel bad that I did so.

So, slightly nicer than some of her messages from yesterday. It seems like her emotions are in flux, too. Stands to reason.

Thankfully, I feel a bit more settled after my wobble yesterday. 😳I hadn’t felt that emotionally out of whack in a very long time.

Of course you felt vulnerable yesterday.
Perfectly understandable.

Politely blowing off her efforts today was wise.

Many of us have to remind ourselves to be firm with our boundaries and to strengthen them.

Often an incident can be the trigger to remind us.

Mind yourself and rest up.

Thank you Postcards 😘

Great post from @billy1966 at 12:45
Explains so well how the victim/survivor gets sucked in.
It can be very hard to perceive, let alone admit even to yourself, that you are a DA victim. Like you Postcards, I am tough-minded, not dim, self-aware, "nobody's victim" ... yet STILL I gave 20 years to an abuser.

So it's not about "strong independent women don't tolerate abuse" - or much worse, the kind of victim-blaming that "you must be weak/stupid/a pushover" that people can come out with. (btw most people do this out of unconscious fear. By 'othering' the victim, they can convince themselves it won't happen to me.)

So please watch yourself for sentiments like -
So, slightly nicer than some of her messages from yesterday. It seems like her emotions are in flux, too. Stands to reason.
That way lies the doorway to Hoovering, & insanity.
Yes, her emotions are in flux. Yes, she's a human too. Yes, she's not actually the devil incarnate. (She is a monster of manipulation though.)

BUT ... when you are ready, (by which I mean put some time aside to think about it when you can line up a distraction/treat immediately afterwards - please mull over what is happening in the dynamic here:
You PULL (moment of madness, post-hospital, physical & mental wellness all ajangle) - "please come over I need a friend". SHE PUSHES. No - you must be punished, you have given a boundary & need to be taught your lesson.
She leaves you to stew on that overnight - then -
SHE PULLS "I can spare you some time now. ..."
You ... fail to accept the pull! So she pulls again, with the softening "You were right to call, don't feel bad ..." - BECAUSE SHE WANTS THAT DOOR TO YOU HELD WIDE OPEN, to step back into at her own pace, on her own agenda.
She is NOT softening her stance here. She is BOUNDARY TESTING YOU.
She is looking for hurt - ("don't feel bad" - bit of a 'tell, no?), - for a chink in your armour. A crack in your Shark Cage - see below.

Apologies if all that sounds hyperbolic.
But I have seen this push me/pull you dynamic enacted too many times to unsee it.

I didn’t realise my boundaries need work. I never saw myself as a pushover. I thought I was pretty strong, many of her worst behaviours I nipped in the bud.
I know my dear.
I didn't either. I thought what I'd survived at the hands of my mother had left me "strong" It hadn't. It left me wide open to people-pleasing (yup, people-pleasers can simultaneously be arse-kickers in other areas of life!) & exactly what Billy described in her recent post. I was so busy nipping worst behaviours in the bud that I lost sight of the wood for the trees, if you'll forgive me flogging the plant analogy to death😂

I think she knows what she’s doing and is ashamed to do it when she perceives me as fully present.

It’s so bloody strange. I have never before encountered this behaviour! WTH?
It's horribly common. So much so that it's known as part of The Script by therapeutic professionals. Again - only when you are ready - if you read up on coercive control you'll start to pattern-spot.
And I'm not diagnosing here, & even if I could, what's the point, because by now your focus is - quite correctly - less on "Why Does (S)He Do That? & more on "the fuck will I tolerate that!" - but if you want to subscribe to Dr Ramani on YouTube, you will recognise your ex in the examples & prototypes she discusses.

You might 'enjoy' (sorry!) this one too - "What it's like to leave a narc" -

Here's a charming resource, an oldie but goldie, on assertiveness for women AKA boundary setting -
www.amazon.co.uk/Woman-Your-Own-Right-Assertiveness/dp/0704334208

And you can sign up for The Freedom Programme online now, if you feel that would be a useful 101 for you - www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/online.php

A final one - obvs. make adjustments around gender expectations, but read the full Shark Cage Metaphor, & consider all the "nice things" you listed about your ex. How many of those were a little bit over the top? A bit too generous? Like ordering you a drink you didn't ask for, then Favour Sharking you "but you owe me!!!". Your ex is too clever to come out with it in actual words, but it was noticeable, from your list, how many of them were grand gestures, & how few were the small, intimate, homely accommodations genuinely open & loving partners make for each other.
www.jennisspace.com/the-shark-cage-metaphor-spotting-potential-abusers/

Phew, catharsis achieved Hope you find Dr Ramani as comforting, enlightening & funny as I have xx

@KettrickenSmiled, yes, you are correct, I can be a people pleaser at times. I’m always looking for affection and love because I didn’t receive it growing up. It was something her and I had in common actually.

I felt what I did were my choices, rather feeling intimidated into it, I felt I could get out of most situations smoothly I wanted. I was never in fear of her and I’m still not now… I was frustrated by her manipulation and gaslighting. Those were her trump cards. In the end, I did tell her it was over because I couldn’t trust her anymore. She was furious because she knew without me engaging with her gaslighting and saying simply: “that’s not what I believe” and walking away, it was game over. She might actually have to talk straight, and maybe she had no idea how to even begin doing that.

She was insecure, but aggressive with it - a contradiction in terms, it took me some time to wrap my head around it. I mean, it’s getting things done, but in a very inefficient, labourers, and chaotic way, isn’t it?

”A final one - obvs. make adjustments around gender expectations, but read the full Shark Cage Metaphor, & consider all the "nice things" you listed about your ex. How many of those were a little bit over the top? A bit too generous? Like ordering you a drink you didn't ask for, then Favour Sharking you "but you owe me!!!". Your ex is too clever to come out with it in actual words, but it was noticeable, from your list, how many of them were grand gestures, & how few were the small, intimate, homely accommodations genuinely open & loving partners make for each other.”

I’m glad you’ve said that, one particular poster said my list was “sad”, and I think it was implied it was pretty pathetic that those were meaningful for me, I don’t think it was sad at all. I felt upset that it was an unnecessary unkind remark. I would like to have seen that poster’s own list if mine was “sad”. There are kinder ways to say these things, as you’ve just done. I’m amazed at how almost uniformly kind everyone had been. Even with the same sex thing. I think posters who don’t like or understand that that just stepped away after the first post.

@billy1966,

“How someone treats you when you are ill is a big marker.”

Absolutely.

After all this, I have the measure of her.

This was no time to play games with me. It’s cruel. I don’t think she even really thought about how I must be feeling at this time.

I would never again believe that she loves me.