Are we being taken for a fool.?

[Indoctro]

Have you watched this video by Neil Oliver

AIBU to start believing he actually has a valid point. I am not normally part of the tin foil hat brigade but I most definitely have been starting to question what's been going on recently

I'd be interested to hear other people views on this subject.

Thanks

This. The book is very well researched and contains many supporting references, but for those wanting a summary, this Guardian article will ground you in the basics in about ten minutes.

agree.

I was accused by a neighbour of being an anti vaxxer...I had two vaccines. You say one word querying the narrative and you are a CT. It's mad.

Yes, the WEF and Schwab have ideas. I am asking you what power it and he have to put these ideas into practice? Why have conspiracy nuts people only become fixated on the WEF and Schwab since 2020?

Attendees at DAVO 2022 include 50 heads of state.

Leaders from around the globe to meet in Davos, Switzerland for the World Economic Forum's Annual Meeting 2022.
The meeting is centered around the theme History at a Turning Point: Government Policies and Business Strategies.
Nearly 2,500 leaders from politics, business, civil society and media to participate in the unique spring 2022 Annual Meeting.

www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/05/davos-2022-whos-coming-and-everything-else-you-need-to-know/

I don't think you can read this and claim the WEF doesn't have influence.

@Bluebellsunderthetrees Yes the WEF has influence, but the likes of NO seem to think that it is secretly running our governments. Your post making connections is a good example of this, making 2+2= something bad.

Is Chelsea Clinton a bad person wishing evil on us all whilst drinking the blood of children in the backroom of a pizza joint?

And I agree with others that our skills at appreciating nuance are diminished and polarisation thinking is dominant.

The conspiracy nuts are out in force lately 🙄

Can't we send them off to their own special board out of the way?

It shocks me to hear those with differing opinions constantly being called ‘conspiracy nut’ ‘loonies’ etc. What is wrong with someone having a different view and why is that so frightening? I home educated my children 20 years ago and I was considered weird, now it is more mainstream, especially since lockdowns. Surely we should all be looking outside of the box rather than just folllwing and doing what we are told. I like listening to differing view points, so that I can make my own mind up about things. If we only accept one narrative then we are no better than North Korea.

Yes I do. You only have to follow the news across the world regularly and carefully to see that these things are happening. Neil Oliver is only voicing what I already know.

An example is covid vaccines - I am fully vaccinated, accept the risk of any side effects is worth the upside of protecting the most vulnerable etc. Last year I met with a male colleague mid 40s who was really healthy, ran marathons etc. He suffered an extreme reaction to the vaccine (think it was called myocarditis), was to do with his heart. He had to be hospitalised and it has had a lasting impact as he can no longer run as before and he needs to be monitored regularly etc. I was pretty shocked when he told me that this side effect was more common than had been reported, I was not even aware it had ever been reported on.
I'm double vaxxed but the vaccine triggered an auto immune disease. This was confirmed by my consultant. I've been through hell. I'm now deeply cynical concerning anything to do with Covid.

If someone, like NO, is rambling through all these claims without presenting any evidence backing them up, then yes I think it's a fair title.

Present a single, well reasoned viewpoint that challenges the "narrative", with credible evidence behind it, and I'll take it seriously.

Ok cool - so his claim on how we're moving to a social credit system where only those that are well behaved will be able to buy things.

How does that benefit a capatalist western government? Why would the Tories want this?

foliageeverywhere well yes but that wasn't the reasons the government minster gave - he cited cost of training to government as reason for the cap and had the assumption we could just pick up doctors from else where if needed in future.

That kind of the point though the lack of interest in doing anything about any of it.

No concern about improving condition to keep doctor we have already trained or finding solutions to lack of training places( I'm not suggest there are any easy solutions)

The social care problem has been visible on the horizon for decades - how to fund and how to get staff - no party wants to deal with it so it's pushed down the line. Now it's so bad it affecting hospitals as the can't discharge people. Every one pointed out the problems with every solution and did nothing about the problem - except with brexit and covid and living cost rises make it worse quicker.

We'll need even more trained doctors in five years time as population increases and more age - doing nothing about lack of training places or increasing students means we know we won't have them. This leaves knowing we will have to poach other countries doctors who will also need them - and that's assuming they'll come here.

Mummyford · Today 10:52

Hungryharriet · Today 10:34

The government is made up of individuals, most of whom genuinely care about their constituents. It's too broad a statement to say 'the government is working against us.'
World politics are to blame for a lot of the UK's current issues (another broad statement).

@Hungryharriet

Like the 265 MPs who voted against forcing water companies to prevent raw sewa@Hungryharrietge dumping int

@Mummyford Do you have a link?

Yes @MercurialMonday - I was agreeing with you but pointing out that just increasing medical school places won't solve the problem.

Anyone who disagrees with you is a conspiracy nut? Sure thing.

This leaves knowing we will have to poach other countries doctors who will also need them - and that's assuming they'll come here.

why would they come to a high tax, high cost, low wage economy? There will be better offers on the table. Lots of the west needs more immigration to support the ageing population but the immigrants will have more power as more countries will be trying to attract them.

Conspiracy theories have always abounded, especially during difficult times. During the Plague, people thought "foreigners" were poisoning the water supply.

It's just fear - feeling that fear, and passing it on to everyone else so you're not along in your fear. The reality is, the world is chaotic and shit and unfair. We are on the outer edges of the climate crisis, the rich are (predictably) getting richer and the poor getting poorer: same as it ever was.

Absolutely this. The psychological effect of the last few years has been very interesting to behold. A lot of people seem to have suddenly realised how easily our lives and society can become fragile and uncontrolled and it’s fried their circuits. People are frightened and looking for control/an explanation of it all, and conspiracy theorists fill that gap nicely. Not that I think conspiracy theorists are acting out of malice; they’re looking for control and explanations too.

I have a fair amount of time for Neil Oliver; his passion for history is wonderful but he does tend to be rather hyperbolic and apply his own narrative. The latter I’ve definitely noticed in his books and podcasts, when he will create a backstory for a place/event that I don’t see any evidence for. The story is nice but it shouldn’t be presented as fact. That seems to have tipped over into his politics and crashed spectacularly into post-covid paranoia.

Yes, the world is a bit shit at the moment. But if we draw back and look back through history, periods like this have happened. Look at the 17th century when we had the execution of a king, the interregnum, the Restoration, the plague and the Great Fire of London in the space of what, 15 years? The idea that bad things are orchestrated by a shadowy Bond-style cabal is quite ridiculous - the worst is probably that the Russians are just shit stirring.

I do feel sorry for people like Mr Oliver, they can’t be in a very good mental place.

You missed my point @foliageeverywhere and selected only part of my post that would suit your point of view - actually confirming exactly what I think the problem is.

I am pro vaccines, fully vaccinated and accept the risk of vaccines. I understand there are pros and cons to every medical intervention - for vaccines I believe the pros outweigh the cons. But I would like to be able to have the discussion on the pros and the cons. Maybe there are many medical journals on this side effect but it was the first time my colleagues and I had ever heard about it (and we are relatively well inforned people but not working in the medical sector)

This is not about vaccines, I just gave that as an example, I think it applies to many other important subjects - this polarisation so that something is either all good or all bad, no grey areas allowed. I also think it is dangerous for us in the west if we can’t have the discussion on the pros and the cons, as I think we used to able to?

TBF the fertility rate in most countries has either dropped to below or well below replacement levels or is predicted to soon - with only a few exceptions.

It's just a huge lag and rapid ageing populations present problems of their own.

We don't drive at all - vey un MN like and frankly the local bus and national trains strikes have cause us a lot of problems - to point I am wondering if not driving is going to be possible long term.

Where have I said 2+2 = something bad.

Do you accept that we saw an enormous transfer of wealth during the pandemic?

Is the main objective of most businesses to make money?

Does it make me unreasonable to wonder whether there is a conflict of interests when government policies are being discussed in conjunction with business strategy?

The blurb on the WEF makes it clear these very wealthy business people think they have a role to play in shaping the world; we didn't elect them, their money buys them the kind of influence your vote will never have.
Am I crazy to be concerned about these people, whose priority is the bottom line, influencing government policy?

You like many others are missing the point; asking questions is not the same as believing unfounded theories or unsubstantiated claims.

@Mummyford Thank you for the link, I'll read it.

Most people barely knew the WEF existed and were not babbling constantly about it here and on the rest of SM before the pandemic, even though it has existed for decades.

My guess is that the pandemic has thrown a lot of people off course and they have become victims of all the old conspiracy theories, dressed in new clothing.

Your post makes no sense in the context of my reply. You claimed vaccine side effects were being "hushed up".

I explained how much published work there is on vaccine side effects, and how simple it is to report this side effects yourself. It easy to find balanced commentary on the risks versus benefits of these vaccines, and make an informed decision for yourself.

Many many scientists including myself dedicated a huge amount of time in trying to comminicate this to the public, and you are clearly not getting your information from the right sources if you think the conversation is being censored.

@MercurialMonday yes birth rates aren't the issue. It's people living longer & not necessarily healthier so I always wonder if people who say the population isn't sustainable are advocating for culling because what's the alternative?

Last year I met with a male colleague mid 40s who was really healthy, ran marathons etc. He suffered an extreme reaction to the vaccine (think it was called myocarditis), was to do with his heart. He had to be hospitalised and it has had a lasting impact as he can no longer run as before and he needs to be monitored regularly etc. I was pretty shocked when he told me that this side effect was more common than had been reported, I was not even aware it had ever been reported on.
I think it is detrimental to the roll out and acceptance of vaccines if side effects are hushed up and the view is pushed that the vaccine is only good. And having geniuine comcerns about the vaccination is only bad. It just gives ammunition to anti-vaxxers that there is a conspiracy going on if the full facts are not presented for people to make up their own minds. And we should be allowed to make up our own minds and not forced to abide by the left wing morally-right groupthink

This was widely reported globally with the Pfizer vaccine from around April 2021 - there was no 'hushing up'. It's listed in the PIL as well as on the government website:
Very rare side effects: may affect up to 1 in 10,000 people
inflammation of the heart muscle (myocarditis) or inflammation of the lining outside the heart (pericarditis) which can result in breathlessness, palpitations or chest pain
It's very sad to hear of anyone who experiences these very rare events but there was no attempt to hide these data.