Page 8 | Call the police or am I wasting police time

GarlicCrackers · 2022-08-20T00:24:40+00:00

Partner went out on his motorbike to go to an open Mike night. Said he would be home at 11. 11.20 he messages to say sorry he didn’t realise the time he’d be home soon. it’s now 1.20 and he isn’t answering his phone. Facebook messages show as not delivered, and when I ring his phone it either says this persons phone is switched off or it rings with no answer. im sure he is fine and is having a good time but I’m pregnant and currently an insomniac, I’m worried. We live in York, I’m worried he has had an accident, or maybe he stupidly had a drink and then something happened on his motorbike. Would I be wasting police time if I rang and asked if they’d had any reports? Do I just wait? I can’t sleep. We have dogs and they bark their heads off when he gets home so he knows it’s not on to come home really late as it wakes me up and I’m an irritable pregnant lady, I’m happy for him to stay out at a friends when he goes out to avoid that. But he’s not communicated anything

Longtimelurkerfinallyposts · 01/09/2022 21:55

Agree that he could have had a vasectomy and minimised the risk of accidental pregnancy. Men could also choose different kinds of sex - not just the penis-in-vagina kind - if they don't want to accidentally make someone pregnant.
If this guy was serious about avoiding creating a child, he would have worn a condom.

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 08:01

Longtimelurkerfinallyposts · 01/09/2022 21:55

Agree that he could have had a vasectomy and minimised the risk of accidental pregnancy. Men could also choose different kinds of sex - not just the penis-in-vagina kind - if they don't want to accidentally make someone pregnant.
If this guy was serious about avoiding creating a child, he would have worn a condom.

yeah but they'd obviously both agreed to OP using the pill. Not sure if they're young as well. In an ideal world there should be pills for men too (me and DP never used condoms once we were in an established relationship, just so fiddly) but there isn't.

If I was on the pill and it didn't work (which is very rare if taken as it should be, and not being ill etc), and my DP didn't want a child I'd opt for termination. OP's partner didn't want a child, it was very clear but then when OP decided to go ahead he didn't want to be someone who abandoned the child. So quite a forced situation. All this talk about 'guys wanting risk free sex' is so childish when, I assume, OP and partner were in a loving relationship and they had made a joint decision on the contraception.

As I say, understand both sides but it is definitely a grey area and I'd not be super comfortable with the 'forced' situation if I was the guy tbh, although he clearly didn't do himself any favours in how it all disintegrated in the end. As before, wishing OP the best of luck in a difficult situation. I'm sure she will come up trumps and as a mother to another child (with a previous partner), it's good to know she is an experienced mum.

HOTHotPeppers · 02/09/2022 08:12

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 08:01

yeah but they'd obviously both agreed to OP using the pill. Not sure if they're young as well. In an ideal world there should be pills for men too (me and DP never used condoms once we were in an established relationship, just so fiddly) but there isn't.

If I was on the pill and it didn't work (which is very rare if taken as it should be, and not being ill etc), and my DP didn't want a child I'd opt for termination. OP's partner didn't want a child, it was very clear but then when OP decided to go ahead he didn't want to be someone who abandoned the child. So quite a forced situation. All this talk about 'guys wanting risk free sex' is so childish when, I assume, OP and partner were in a loving relationship and they had made a joint decision on the contraception.

As I say, understand both sides but it is definitely a grey area and I'd not be super comfortable with the 'forced' situation if I was the guy tbh, although he clearly didn't do himself any favours in how it all disintegrated in the end. As before, wishing OP the best of luck in a difficult situation. I'm sure she will come up trumps and as a mother to another child (with a previous partner), it's good to know she is an experienced mum.

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Why should OP risk a breakdown or infertility terminating a child she wants? Why do men's feelings come first? He opted out of wearing a condom or having a vasectomy. I'm sorry your husband leaves responsibilities up to you and you regard his thoughts and feelings as more important than your own, doesn't mean it's right.

ReneBumsWombats · 02/09/2022 08:20

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 08:01

yeah but they'd obviously both agreed to OP using the pill. Not sure if they're young as well. In an ideal world there should be pills for men too (me and DP never used condoms once we were in an established relationship, just so fiddly) but there isn't.

If I was on the pill and it didn't work (which is very rare if taken as it should be, and not being ill etc), and my DP didn't want a child I'd opt for termination. OP's partner didn't want a child, it was very clear but then when OP decided to go ahead he didn't want to be someone who abandoned the child. So quite a forced situation. All this talk about 'guys wanting risk free sex' is so childish when, I assume, OP and partner were in a loving relationship and they had made a joint decision on the contraception.

As I say, understand both sides but it is definitely a grey area and I'd not be super comfortable with the 'forced' situation if I was the guy tbh, although he clearly didn't do himself any favours in how it all disintegrated in the end. As before, wishing OP the best of luck in a difficult situation. I'm sure she will come up trumps and as a mother to another child (with a previous partner), it's good to know she is an experienced mum.

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If I was on the pill and it didn't work (which is very rare if taken as it should be, and not being ill etc), and my DP didn't want a child I'd opt for termination.

Then when you are in that situation, you can make the choice that you prefer. OP is not you.

As for your idea of what's childish, that's a joke. Prioritising a man's wish for consequence-free sex, which is exactly what it is, over a child's right to parental support is what's childish. It's hard to think of anything more childish than trying to avoid natural and known consequences of your own actions, even to the point of insisting other people should take excessive personal costs to their health that they are not obliged to do just so that you can get away with nothing.

There is no grey area in a woman's bodily autonomy or a child's right to minimal parental provision. If you think there is, you are supportive of forced birth/forced abortion based on a man's wants, and of prioritising a father's wants over his child's rights. To think it's "childish" to say otherwise is phenomenally immature itself, not to mention sinister.

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 09:44

HOTHotPeppers · 02/09/2022 08:12

Why should OP risk a breakdown or infertility terminating a child she wants? Why do men's feelings come first? He opted out of wearing a condom or having a vasectomy. I'm sorry your husband leaves responsibilities up to you and you regard his thoughts and feelings as more important than your own, doesn't mean it's right.

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We're all entitled to our opinions and actions. Often - believe it or not - partners make a choice between them on the contraception. Often - and not saying this is right and there should definitely be more of a choice so that men can have more options than vasectomy (bit drastic!) - females are on the pill even before they're in active sexual relationships for (could be to control their periods or to reduce the amount or pain) and it often ends up being the contraception of choice.

If there is an 'accident' and if one partner is not willing, why should they need to be engaged if they don't want to (not saying this is the case here as OP's partner eventually 'came around' to the idea) and then end up paying for that child when - it's still thank goodness legal in this country - to use morning after pills or termination.

There is a lot of negativity towards 'men' in the use of language around 'men expecting guild-free sex', as if men can't have a romantic interest that leads to a loving, sexual relationship.

As I say, for me, it is a grey area. But I've always been very fortunate to be in equal, loving and consensual relationships (with men) where they value my opinion and I feel heard.

ReneBumsWombats · 02/09/2022 09:56

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 09:44

We're all entitled to our opinions and actions. Often - believe it or not - partners make a choice between them on the contraception. Often - and not saying this is right and there should definitely be more of a choice so that men can have more options than vasectomy (bit drastic!) - females are on the pill even before they're in active sexual relationships for (could be to control their periods or to reduce the amount or pain) and it often ends up being the contraception of choice.

If there is an 'accident' and if one partner is not willing, why should they need to be engaged if they don't want to (not saying this is the case here as OP's partner eventually 'came around' to the idea) and then end up paying for that child when - it's still thank goodness legal in this country - to use morning after pills or termination.

There is a lot of negativity towards 'men' in the use of language around 'men expecting guild-free sex', as if men can't have a romantic interest that leads to a loving, sexual relationship.

As I say, for me, it is a grey area. But I've always been very fortunate to be in equal, loving and consensual relationships (with men) where they value my opinion and I feel heard.

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If there is an 'accident' and if one partner is not willing, why should they need to be engaged if they don't want to (not saying this is the case here as OP's partner eventually 'came around' to the idea) and then end up paying for that child when - it's still thank goodness legal in this country - to use morning after pills or termination.

Because those are intrusive procedures that carry risks. The decision of whether to undergo them therefore rests with the person who actually has to go through with them. How do you need this explaining to you?

They should be engaged even if they "don't want to" because that's how being a parent works. You are responsible for the child you co-created. How is it preferable for taxpayers to take on provision for a man's child, in place of any contribution from him, because he "doesn't want to"? How is it our responsibility more than his? (No issues with benefits where CM and mother's income don't cover it.) Or do you think cold and hungry children are an acceptable price to pay when fathers "don't want to"?

There is a lot of negativity towards 'men' in the use of language around 'men expecting guild-free sex', as if men can't have a romantic interest that leads to a loving, sexual relationship.

It's hardly loving if he fucks off when he has a child without even giving minimal financial provision. And the phrase is "consequence-free sex" or "risk free". You don't like it because it speaks the truth: that we all know sex can lead to babies and it's immature, selfish and shitty to expect the rest of the world, or even a child, to take damage so that you can escape the natural consequences of your actions.

If it's a "grey area" for you, great. You can exercise your choice to have men decide what happens to your body. But nobody else has to, and children certainly don't have to go without because their own parents decided they "don't want to".

BadNomad · 02/09/2022 09:58

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 09:44

We're all entitled to our opinions and actions. Often - believe it or not - partners make a choice between them on the contraception. Often - and not saying this is right and there should definitely be more of a choice so that men can have more options than vasectomy (bit drastic!) - females are on the pill even before they're in active sexual relationships for (could be to control their periods or to reduce the amount or pain) and it often ends up being the contraception of choice.

If there is an 'accident' and if one partner is not willing, why should they need to be engaged if they don't want to (not saying this is the case here as OP's partner eventually 'came around' to the idea) and then end up paying for that child when - it's still thank goodness legal in this country - to use morning after pills or termination.

There is a lot of negativity towards 'men' in the use of language around 'men expecting guild-free sex', as if men can't have a romantic interest that leads to a loving, sexual relationship.

As I say, for me, it is a grey area. But I've always been very fortunate to be in equal, loving and consensual relationships (with men) where they value my opinion and I feel heard.

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The issue is you are seeing abortion as a form of contraception. You're not getting it into your head that by that stage it is too late to prevent a pregnancy. The pregnancy exists. Pregnancy, if all goes well, results in a child. It doesn't matter if that child was wanted or not, it exists. From that point on, the people who created that child are obligated to support it, financially at the bare minimum, unless given up for adoption.

Abortion does not come into it. It is not an obligation or an expectation. It is not contraception. It has nothing to do with a man and woman creating a pregnancy.

Calling it "guilt-free sex" is accurate though. Men want to have sex without the consequences of pregnancy. Yet aren't making the effort to prevent these pregnancies they say they don't want. Men need to take responsibility for themselves. A man who doesn't even use condoms has no right to be shocked if a pregnancy occurs.

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 10:15

BadNomad · 02/09/2022 09:58

The issue is you are seeing abortion as a form of contraception. You're not getting it into your head that by that stage it is too late to prevent a pregnancy. The pregnancy exists. Pregnancy, if all goes well, results in a child. It doesn't matter if that child was wanted or not, it exists. From that point on, the people who created that child are obligated to support it, financially at the bare minimum, unless given up for adoption.

Abortion does not come into it. It is not an obligation or an expectation. It is not contraception. It has nothing to do with a man and woman creating a pregnancy.

Calling it "guilt-free sex" is accurate though. Men want to have sex without the consequences of pregnancy. Yet aren't making the effort to prevent these pregnancies they say they don't want. Men need to take responsibility for themselves. A man who doesn't even use condoms has no right to be shocked if a pregnancy occurs.

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But if they both agreed on using the pill, why would the partner be expected to use a condom? Condoms are also much less efficient as contraception.

As I say, if pills are used accurately (we all make mistakes), they're very very efficient. If there is an accident (not taken a pill), there is the morning after pill. As I say, we're all different but I would have chosen termination in that situation regardless of whether my partner preferred that option or not. That's just me and let's leave it at that. You have your opinions, I have mine. If I was in the US I would most certainly not be on the 'pro life' side of things but pro abortions.

HOTHotPeppers · 02/09/2022 10:21

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 10:15

But if they both agreed on using the pill, why would the partner be expected to use a condom? Condoms are also much less efficient as contraception.

As I say, if pills are used accurately (we all make mistakes), they're very very efficient. If there is an accident (not taken a pill), there is the morning after pill. As I say, we're all different but I would have chosen termination in that situation regardless of whether my partner preferred that option or not. That's just me and let's leave it at that. You have your opinions, I have mine. If I was in the US I would most certainly not be on the 'pro life' side of things but pro abortions.

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Out of interest, if you found yourself pregnant tommorow and found that you were 23 weeks pregnant. If your partner asked you to terminate you believe you should? Or if you found you was 36 weeks but the baby had DS and your partner asked you to terminate, bur you did not want to. What about then?

ReneBumsWombats · 02/09/2022 10:24

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 10:15

But if they both agreed on using the pill, why would the partner be expected to use a condom? Condoms are also much less efficient as contraception.

As I say, if pills are used accurately (we all make mistakes), they're very very efficient. If there is an accident (not taken a pill), there is the morning after pill. As I say, we're all different but I would have chosen termination in that situation regardless of whether my partner preferred that option or not. That's just me and let's leave it at that. You have your opinions, I have mine. If I was in the US I would most certainly not be on the 'pro life' side of things but pro abortions.

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Because the pill is a) something only the woman has to think about and b) not 100% reliable. No contraception is. It is a risk. A man has a right to choose not to use condoms on top (with his partner's consent) but when you handball all responsibility to someone else and choose not to take any additional action for yourself, that's what might happen.

I don't know why you keep saying you'd choose termination. Nobody has suggested that you shouldn't be able to if it were your situation.

But as BadNomad says, we're talking about an existing pregnancy now.

If you think it's a "grey area", you must think that there's a case for a man having the right either to force a woman to an abortion, or abandon all responsibility for his own child, even if this puts the child into poverty or makes taxpayers pay instead of him. Can you make these cases?

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 10:38

HOTHotPeppers · 02/09/2022 10:21

Out of interest, if you found yourself pregnant tommorow and found that you were 23 weeks pregnant. If your partner asked you to terminate you believe you should? Or if you found you was 36 weeks but the baby had DS and your partner asked you to terminate, bur you did not want to. What about then?

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An extreme example, 23 weeks and not know?? Of course it does happen. If so, if I wanted the child I would keep it and not terminate just because my partner wanted to. But if I didn't, yes, I would terminate.

Not sure re DS scenario. I would not be forced by a partner, it would be my own decision.

BadNomad · 02/09/2022 10:41

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 10:15

But if they both agreed on using the pill, why would the partner be expected to use a condom? Condoms are also much less efficient as contraception.

As I say, if pills are used accurately (we all make mistakes), they're very very efficient. If there is an accident (not taken a pill), there is the morning after pill. As I say, we're all different but I would have chosen termination in that situation regardless of whether my partner preferred that option or not. That's just me and let's leave it at that. You have your opinions, I have mine. If I was in the US I would most certainly not be on the 'pro life' side of things but pro abortions.

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Because if he feels that strongly about not wanting to become a parent, why would he put all the responsibility to prevent a pregnancy on the woman? And then expect her to put herself through an abortion because he'd told her he didn't want children. Maybe if he'd put some effort into preventing it, instead of making it all her responsibility, it wouldn't have happened.

Would you get into a car without wearing a seatbelt, then blame the driver if an accident happens? People need to take personal responsibility for their (lack of) actions.

HOTHotPeppers · 02/09/2022 10:45

marvellousindeed · 02/09/2022 10:38

An extreme example, 23 weeks and not know?? Of course it does happen. If so, if I wanted the child I would keep it and not terminate just because my partner wanted to. But if I didn't, yes, I would terminate.

Not sure re DS scenario. I would not be forced by a partner, it would be my own decision.

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Surely that goes against your belief that a man shouldn't be forced into parenthood?

BadNomad · 02/09/2022 10:45

Men: "I want to have sex with you, but I don't want to have children, so you need to make sure that doesn't happen. Thanks."

Nah.

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 10:51

Because if he feels that strongly about not wanting to become a parent, why would he put all the responsibility to prevent a pregnancy on the woman

in my experience contraception choice is a joint decision as a couple. Conforms also fail.

ReneBumsWombats · 02/09/2022 10:53

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 10:51

Because if he feels that strongly about not wanting to become a parent, why would he put all the responsibility to prevent a pregnancy on the woman

in my experience contraception choice is a joint decision as a couple. Conforms also fail.

Then it's a joint responsibility if it fails.

BadNomad · 02/09/2022 10:54

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 10:51

Because if he feels that strongly about not wanting to become a parent, why would he put all the responsibility to prevent a pregnancy on the woman

in my experience contraception choice is a joint decision as a couple. Conforms also fail.

What are the chances of the pill AND condoms failing at the same time? I'm sure it's a lot less than just the pill or condom. It still doesn't mean the woman should have an abortion.

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 10:59

ReneBumsWombats · 02/09/2022 10:53

Then it's a joint responsibility if it fails.

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Agree. But either parent can walk away. It’s a sad fact that pregnancy does not force you to actively parent or raise a child.

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 10:59

BadNomad · 02/09/2022 10:54

What are the chances of the pill AND condoms failing at the same time? I'm sure it's a lot less than just the pill or condom. It still doesn't mean the woman should have an abortion.

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I didn’t say it did. I don’t think anyone did?

BadNomad · 02/09/2022 11:01

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 10:59

I didn’t say it did. I don’t think anyone did?

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Yes. People said it. Called it a "grey area".

ReneBumsWombats · 02/09/2022 11:04

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 10:59

Agree. But either parent can walk away. It’s a sad fact that pregnancy does not force you to actively parent or raise a child.

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I don't really see what point you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting pregnancy and childbirth don't make it harder for women to walk away? Are you suggesting that if a child lives away from the mother but is not adopted, she should be able to abandon all responsibility, not even paying small maintenance contributions, simply because she doesn't want to?

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 11:06

ReneBumsWombats · 02/09/2022 11:04

I don't really see what point you're trying to make here. Are you suggesting pregnancy and childbirth don't make it harder for women to walk away? Are you suggesting that if a child lives away from the mother but is not adopted, she should be able to abandon all responsibility, not even paying small maintenance contributions, simply because she doesn't want to?

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Eh no.

ReneBumsWombats · 02/09/2022 11:18

Fairylightsongs · 02/09/2022 11:06

Eh no.

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So what point are you trying to make?

friskybivalves · 02/09/2022 21:32

As nicely as possible, perhaps the contraception debaters could start their own thread and stop taking this one down a cul de sac.

OP - hope this weekend goes OK for you and passes with the least possible stress!

ReneBumsWombats · 03/09/2022 08:05

friskybivalves · 02/09/2022 21:32

As nicely as possible, perhaps the contraception debaters could start their own thread and stop taking this one down a cul de sac.

OP - hope this weekend goes OK for you and passes with the least possible stress!

Thank God for you wading in ten hours after the conversation had stopped to police it.