Page 12 | To think we don't need a formula feeding month

LilacSky95 · 2022-08-19T08:22:01+00:00

I have seen a couple of mum 'influencers' on Instagram writing posts about how it's not fair we have breastfeeding month when so many mums can't/didn't breastfeed, and we should start a formula feeding month too. AIBU to think this is totally unnecessary? Disclaimer - Not looking to start a breast v bottle debate

UndertheCedartree · 20/08/2022 00:06

Faciadipasta · 19/08/2022 22:31

The lack of help for FF and the push for BF as the ONLY acceptable way to feed is absolutely negligent.
I had twins. I breastfed them for 5 months. Have you ever tried to BF twins? There is no way to do it discreetly. You have to lift your entire top. My babies both lost so much weight by day 7 we were sent to A and E who told me I HAD to give them a bottle or they would been to be admitted. But they couldn't provide formula, that's not allowed. So we had to find an open supermarket at 10.30pm. I combined fed for 3 days, they regained the weight and the HV told me to stop FF. They lost weight again, I saw lactation Consultants, was on domperidone for months. We had both of them privately fixed for tbeir tongue tie. I had to weight them before each breast feed, them weight them each afterwards, and calculate how much more formula they needed based on grams of weight gain. Every 2 hours. And pump after each feed. Throughout the night too.
I couldn't leave the house. I was bullied by every health visitor and midwife I saw into believing if I didn't do this insane ritual my babies would somehow be harmed. I developed PND. Every other mum I knew bar 1 who had babies at the same time BF and I felt awful to even WANT to quit even though it was dragging me into a dark hole of despair. I know PP see saying FF is the norm but I guarantee in my peer group it London it absolutely isn't.
And I kept this up for 5 FUCKING LONG DARK BLACK TRAPPED MONTHS because of all the pressure.
When 1 of my babies was blue lighted to hospital with bronchiolitis at 5 months I literally broke down to the pediatrician saying it must be my fault because I hadn't managed to EBF and was having to do formula top ups.
The pediatrician sat me down and told me this was crazy. It would not have made a blind bit of difference and it was fine to switch to formula right away if I wanted to.
I did that day. The only thing I regret was not doing it sooner. It took over my life and stopped me bonding with my babies in the early months.
I still get anxiety if I think back to those awful days.
So while I totally agree with their being a need for more BF help and promotion, the bullies who constantly shove "breast is best" down new mums throats or decide that midwives aren't allowed to give impartial help with FF can fuck off.

This is really eye opening to me because I had no idea that HCP wouldn't give help with formula feeding. Now of course the health benefits of BFing should be promoted in pregnancy, once it is clear what method (or combination of methods) a mother is using surely help should be given either way. My own experience was the opposite in that I wanted to BF but had FF shoved down my throat. It doesn't sound like anyone is being listened to!

UndertheCedartree · 20/08/2022 00:12

Scottishskifun · 19/08/2022 22:54

I don't think you need a FF month as others say it will just be used by companies for promotion which they aren't allowed to do for first milks.

I understand the point of bf month it's because rates are low and many women before bf feel self conscious about it and many have been subjected to comments or worse.

I personally believe that supported is best. That a mum has the required help whatever she chooses sadly this doesn't happen.

I've been in baby groups and many ff mums straight away feel the need to defend their reasons for bottle feeding when I start bf. I mostly fins it sad that they feel they need to explain when I haven't said anything. My usual response is I have no idea how you do it I am so disorganised I would never leave the house and would have a screaming baby constantly from getting timings wrong!

I've found that can help put minds at ease and soften any nervousness and it's completely true I would completely suck at it!

Yes, I've experienced this. FF mums feeling they need to explain why they don't BF. Of course they don't need to. But it did used to rub me up the wrong way as they'd explain how it hurt or this or that and I felt I couldn't talk about how much it hurt me etc as it would seem a criticism of them! So we were all tying ourselves up in knots for no reason. I would often say the same about how hard it must be for them having to get up in the night to make bottles and remember to pack everything (and genuinely I would have struggled with that so much!) but it wasn't plain sailing breastfeeding either just for different reasons.

DreamToNightmare · 20/08/2022 00:14

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 00:05

They have been argued, and studied, many times. The benefit is so small it can only be seen when studying hundreds of thousands of infants. It really isn’t anything to get upset about, and the babies aren’t being ‘deprived’. Much more important are genetics, diet, exercise, mental health etc.

I once read a short overview of a study which had been done on breast feeding rates and it said that 80% of women who are pregnant want to try breastfeeding and when they were asked why they wanted to breast feed the main reason wasn’t for the health benefits.

As a medical person I remember being quite surprised by this as it was the massive driving force behind why I breast fed my own children and I really wish I had gone on to find the actual study itself to learn more about women’s reasons.

I find the concept of differing women’s attitudes towards breastfeeding so complex and interesting and I often wonder what leads to each woman’s individual way of thinking taking into account their social circles and external influence etc.

I remember when I was at a really low point when trying to breast feed my second, I was having so many difficulties and life seemed so shitty and bleak and I used to look at women who had made the decision to switch to formula and actually feel jealous of them.

shreddednips · 20/08/2022 00:15

We don't need a FF awareness week. We also don't need a breastfeeding week either. What we need is properly funded, effective support for women who wish to breastfeed.

What I wasn't aware of before reading this thread is that healthcare professionals aren't providing advice to new parents on formula feeding. That's absolutely shocking to me, it's a matter of safety and information gleaned from Google isn't always reliable. So as well as MUCH better breastfeeding support, we also need readily accessible access to high-quality formula feeding advice and support.

Even if the aim was to increase breastfeeding rates, I can't even understand the logic of refusing to advise on formula feeding. I don't believe for a second that women come away from that experience feeling inspired to breastfeed because their HV refused to tell them how to safely make a bottle. I can't wrap my head around how that's ethical to refuse a new parent advice on how to feed their baby safely.

It's really sad that this causes such a divide among women. I've done both and frankly, there's no shame-free option. Bottle feed and you're shamed for not choosing the 'best option', breastfeed and you're asked to move to a toilet and tutted at for being indecent and asked when you plan to stop. I completely believe everyone on this thread who says they've been shamed for either way of feeding, whatever you choose will come with judgement and shame because misogyny.

shreddednips · 20/08/2022 00:30

Scottishskifun, I think 'supported is best' is a really good way of putting it. All these awareness weeks won't achieve that, it requires proper investment and effort not just 'awareness.'

UndertheCedartree · 20/08/2022 00:32

Wouldloveanother · 19/08/2022 23:54

If you believe women have the right to choose how to feed, then neither should be ‘prioritised’ over the other. Just information given and then support them in their decision. At the end of the day the health benefits are negligible and therefore not worth anyone getting too upset over.

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I've not given my opinion just started it is against the law.

But if you really believe in a mother's right I find it strange that you say 'the health benefits are negligible and therefore not worth anyone getting too upset over'. As a new mum I felt the health benefits were worth it to want to breastfeed. It was very important to me. And the push to formula feed did upset me and cause a lot of stress. I found that kind of talk so divisive because it just invalidates the feelings and opinions of some mothers. We shouldn't be shaming any mother, not for formula feeding or for 'getting upset' about being pushed not to breast feed.

UndertheCedartree · 20/08/2022 00:34

DreamToNightmare · 19/08/2022 23:57

Absolutely. I have two children and breast fed them until they were just under 3 and people were horrified. The looks and comments I used to get were very upsetting as they couldn’t understand they weren’t just having cow’s milk.

I asked them why they thought giving my child milk that’s been extracted from a cow was better for them than human milk and they obviously had no answer.

It’s all about social norms and sadly we have a long way to go until breastfeeding becomes “normal” and accepted without any judgements from others.

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Yes, same. You feel you have to hide the way you are feeding your DC which is so wrong.

UndertheCedartree · 20/08/2022 00:36

Wouldloveanother · 19/08/2022 23:59

@DreamToNightmare what’s that got to do with this thread? It’s about formula feeding.

The discussion has been a bit more nuanced than that. Many of us have been talking about how the real problem is mother's being shamed for however they choose to feed their baby.

UndertheCedartree · 20/08/2022 00:41

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 00:05

They have been argued, and studied, many times. The benefit is so small it can only be seen when studying hundreds of thousands of infants. It really isn’t anything to get upset about, and the babies aren’t being ‘deprived’. Much more important are genetics, diet, exercise, mental health etc.

I don't think you should be dictating what mother's can 'get upset' about. Many mums have posted on this thread saying they were upset at not being able to breastfeed or at being judged for formula feeding. Should we just tell them 'it isn't anything to get upset about'. I don't find that attitude supportive atall.

BerryBerryBerryBerry · 20/08/2022 03:21

LilacSky95 · 19/08/2022 17:57

Obviously this is a nasty goady OP. The I'm not against formula but... is on a par with I'm not racist but.. I hate all these goady trolly posts about formula, babies ears and fanny hair. So transparently nasty.

Me the goady one? Lol. You are the only one resorting to name calling, dear.

What's this about fanny hair and baby ears? What's that got to do with anything?🤣 perhaps you've had enough internet for today.

I will say it again. Promoting breastfeeding and saying we don't need formula month is not shaming formula. It is not goady to promote breastfeeding. Repeat until understood x

And there we go. No need to feed it any more.

Grizzlac · 20/08/2022 12:07

MsPincher · 19/08/2022 17:50

Lol You’re not actually “genuinely speechless”though as you wrote a big reply.

I read the article yes. Did you? Doesn’t seem like you did from the hyperbole above. As I said- war on want wrote an article about nestle that they were successfully sued for as it wasn’t true. It wasn’t about “formula companies” as there is no such thing. It was about nestle.

im a second generation immigrant. In the developing country where some of my family are from, babies who can’t breastfeed in poorer families are often fed sugar water, boiled cows milk and so on. Because they can’t access formula free and it’s too expensive to buy. Or if they do get formula they dilute it too much or don’t make it up properly. That’s why education is so essential and probably a lack of stigmatization would make it more readily available.

Babies are still dying from poverty and lack of adequate nutrition in the developing world. That didn’t disappear in the 70s. Nor did banning nestle from promoting one of its products solve the problem. Because the problem was more complicated in the first place.

of course women in the developing world shouldn’t be encouraged to use formula if they don’t need it and can’t afford it (many in the developing world can afford formula just fine of course).

But not everyone can breastfeed regardless of your dogma or wish to find a simple answer. That’s true in the developing world too. Many women need formula in the developing world too and if it was cheaper and less shame associated that would help. Also if there was better education on bottle prep etc.

However we are talking about the uk anyway. shaming women in the uk for using formula because you think nestle (who produce no formula in the uk) behaved inappropriately in the developing world in the 70s is bonkers. Campaign against smarties or something instead.

if one company produced a rogue or ineffective medicine would you rail against all medications no matter who produced them? It’s nonsense. What nestle did (or according to the court didn’t) do in the 70s in Africa doesn’t justify the maltreatment of women in the uk in 2022 and stigmatization of the use of a generic product in the uk which isn’t even produced by nestle.

anyway as I said, formula milk correctly used saves millions of babies globally on a daily basis. It’s a wonderful thing and we should stop behaving as if it’s poison.

I formula fed because I couldn’t breastfeed. Some women in the uk formula feed because they want to. so many of us are made to feel awful for doing so. Also we are not given information on how to make up bottles etc. that needs to change. It’s a feminist issue imo.

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@MsPincher you’re trolling now. Of course I read the article, hence my entire post being mentioning points made in the article. The semantics of ‘Nestle kills babies’ was found to be libellous but they were also court ordered to fundamentally change all their immoral practices that DID lead to the deaths of millions of babies. How you can ignore that, or find that less important than the ‘shame’ you feel (or apparently don’t feel, though your engagement on this thread implies otherwise) about ff baffles me. I was and remain speechless in response to your position; all I could manage was summarising the points in the article to check YOU actually read it. So unbelievably myopic.

And yes, formula has instructions (in a language most of us can read!) on the tin; boobs don’t. There is a WEALTH of information out there on ff, not least from the formula companies who would be delighted for all mothers to abandon bf and start buying their profitable products. Breastfeeding is hard, can be painful and takes skill and practice to get established. Some women choose to push through that, some don’t, and a small number can’t. All those options are fine. But no one needs encouragement to ff; it’s everywhere, the default option, promoted ALL the time and widely available. It’s only expensive cos the formula-producing companies (I’ll give in to your pedantry about ‘formula companies’ not being a thing) spend millions on misleading marketing implying there’s anything noticeably different between their products and own brand, which there isn’t. An NHS standard formula would also remove the need for fake follow-on formula as a cheaper alternative to first formula with marketing promotions being legal, as the formula itself would be cheaper.

I like ‘supported is best’; fed is not best, it is minimal. All women should be supported to feed their baby the way they choose with full knowledge on the benefits and pitfalls of both. With 88% of children being ff, at least partially, by 4 months clearly the ‘stigma’ isn’t stopping women from ff. stigma against bf and lack of support to do so clearly is stopping mothers from bf, though.

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:11

UndertheCedartree · 20/08/2022 00:41

I don't think you should be dictating what mother's can 'get upset' about. Many mums have posted on this thread saying they were upset at not being able to breastfeed or at being judged for formula feeding. Should we just tell them 'it isn't anything to get upset about'. I don't find that attitude supportive atall.

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its not opinion, it’s fact! And surely much more reassuring than ‘your child missed out on an enormous and noticeable health benefit’. And my point was it isn’t for bfing mums to act all faux concerned about FF kids ‘being deprived’ of health benefits (as pp said).

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:13

UndertheCedartree · 20/08/2022 00:36

The discussion has been a bit more nuanced than that. Many of us have been talking about how the real problem is mother's being shamed for however they choose to feed their baby.

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nah it just seems bf mums have turned up to say they wouldn’t want more awareness of Ff as it would make them feel invalidated.

lets just provide information on both and let mums choose and get on with it.

DreamToNightmare · 20/08/2022 12:19

nah it just seems bf mums have turned up to say they wouldn’t want more awareness of Ff as it would make them feel invalidated.

Its nothing to do with what breast feeding mothers want or say.

Its the law that formula feeding can not be publicly promoted or advertised hence why a Formula Awareness month simply cannot be done.

MsPincher · 20/08/2022 12:19

Bejeweled · 19/08/2022 18:28

Everyone is aware of the existence of breast

In answer to this, breastfeeding has to be established. You can encounter lots of pain, bleeding nipples, massive engorged breasts, leaking, getting the right latch, breast changes after. Which isn't the same as buying formula off a shelf and preparing it.

Like someone else said, you don't really need support to be able to formula feed (unless you're switching from breast to formula). So if there was a formula awareness thing, it makes sense it be done alongside breastfeeding rather than as a standalone thing.

That’s actually not true at all. There can be lots of issues with formula feeding from reflux to proper preparation to different types of bottles. It’s not as simple as buy it off the shelf and bung it in.

also as has been said many times it would be really useful to tackle mums who formula feed because they couldn’t breastfeed and have guilt or issues with that.

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:28

DreamToNightmare · 20/08/2022 12:19

nah it just seems bf mums have turned up to say they wouldn’t want more awareness of Ff as it would make them feel invalidated.

Its nothing to do with what breast feeding mothers want or say.

Its the law that formula feeding can not be publicly promoted or advertised hence why a Formula Awareness month simply cannot be done.

So that law should be changed 🤷🏼‍♀️

Bejeweled · 20/08/2022 12:40

@MsPincher I don't accept formula is as difficult as breastfeeding. It's tricky for everyone to navigate feeding a newborn and getting used to it.

With formula, the milk is right there. I'm sure some people have issues, sure, but it's generally more straightforward. With breastfeeding, the milk might not be coming out. Or it's excruciating to just feed your baby (broken nipples, mastitis, uterine contractions for second births) etc.

In response to pp's comment, yes, breastfeeding is much harder to establish. I could've phrased it as 'more support for breastfeeding' though.

My intention wasn't to put anyone down, but establishing breastfeeding is generally much kore challenging for multiple reasons relating to mum and baby

DreamToNightmare · 20/08/2022 12:41

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:28

So that law should be changed 🤷🏼‍♀️

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It’s not going to be changed.

It was put in place by the World Health Organisation who recognised the damage that formula companies were doing to breast feeding and to the health of babies as a secondary effect.

Formula companies are a business and all that matters to them is making money from their products. Formula companies know that if women are breastfeeding they aren’t buying their products and so trying to discourage breastfeeding is ultimately their aim.

Formula is a suitable form of nutrition for a baby but let’s not kid ourselves that formula companies care about the babies…..their focus is on making money and profit - Just like every other business. Formula companies are no different to any other companies in that respect.

I’m sure that someone once told me that formula companies are the biggest money making businesses in the world….

The World Health Organisation is not going to overturn the law and allow formula companies to further damage breastfeeding rates (and potentially impact on the health of infants/children) for no other reason than their own financial gain.

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:44

do you acknowledge that formula is necessary, @DreamToNightmare ? Do you acknowledge that women should have the freedom to choose how to feed their child? If yes and yes, then how do you suppose women should be able to have the information to make the choice that is right for them and if that means formula, how to prepare and feed it properly and hygienically?

Do you accept the first hand stories on this thread of mums who were unsure how to feed their babies with formula milk because of a lack of information and support? Who was this benefitting? Was depriving them of information making the breastfeeding rate higher?

MsPincher · 20/08/2022 12:44

Grizzlac · 20/08/2022 12:07

@MsPincher you’re trolling now. Of course I read the article, hence my entire post being mentioning points made in the article. The semantics of ‘Nestle kills babies’ was found to be libellous but they were also court ordered to fundamentally change all their immoral practices that DID lead to the deaths of millions of babies. How you can ignore that, or find that less important than the ‘shame’ you feel (or apparently don’t feel, though your engagement on this thread implies otherwise) about ff baffles me. I was and remain speechless in response to your position; all I could manage was summarising the points in the article to check YOU actually read it. So unbelievably myopic.

And yes, formula has instructions (in a language most of us can read!) on the tin; boobs don’t. There is a WEALTH of information out there on ff, not least from the formula companies who would be delighted for all mothers to abandon bf and start buying their profitable products. Breastfeeding is hard, can be painful and takes skill and practice to get established. Some women choose to push through that, some don’t, and a small number can’t. All those options are fine. But no one needs encouragement to ff; it’s everywhere, the default option, promoted ALL the time and widely available. It’s only expensive cos the formula-producing companies (I’ll give in to your pedantry about ‘formula companies’ not being a thing) spend millions on misleading marketing implying there’s anything noticeably different between their products and own brand, which there isn’t. An NHS standard formula would also remove the need for fake follow-on formula as a cheaper alternative to first formula with marketing promotions being legal, as the formula itself would be cheaper.

I like ‘supported is best’; fed is not best, it is minimal. All women should be supported to feed their baby the way they choose with full knowledge on the benefits and pitfalls of both. With 88% of children being ff, at least partially, by 4 months clearly the ‘stigma’ isn’t stopping women from ff. stigma against bf and lack of support to do so clearly is stopping mothers from bf, though.

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This is just more nonsense. The court did not order nestle to change any practices in Africa - at least if it did it’s not on the article. Unlikely a European libel court would have jurisdiction to make orders on marketing in Africa anyway.

You’re not listening at all. Lots of women have come on this thread to explain how they were shamed by the NHS and others for not breastfeeding and (therefore) formula feeding. They were also not given any education on bottle prep etc.

Yet you continue to deny it and claim “no one needs encouragement to formula feed” and that “it’s promoted all the time” even though it isn’t and many women have already told you how they were treated. But this is classic formula shaming- ignore women when they give their perspective and just tell them the nasty “formula companies” are duping them. Treat them as if they are stupid and irrelevant.

ultimately though many women (me included) are sick of being mistreated for formula feeding. Sick of being ignored and patronised and treated like we are gullible idiots.As I said I was upset at the time but now I’m just angry at the misogyny.

Actually studies don’t show any discernible difference once you control for other factors anyway. It’s our choice as mothers and women to breastfeed or formula feed. They’re our breasts and it’s our choice.

Formula milk is an essential and healthy food for babies and infants. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding it to babies or producing it and selling it. Stop shaming formula feeding mums and it’s producers as if it was some sort of poison. It isn’t. Quite the opposite

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:50

Actually studies don’t show any discernible difference once you control for other factors anyway.

I think this is the bone of contention for bfing mums to be honest. I think some of them (particularly those who struggled to get breastfeeding going - like me!) feel peeved that the effort they went to, won’t really translate into any noticeable health benefit in their child.

it does seem strange that the benefit is so tiny given, on paper, breastmilk honestly sounds like a miracle substance.

but when you consider how overwhelming the other factors are - genetics, weight, exercise, nutrition, fresh air, mental health, etc - it puts it in proportion a bit.

dizzydizzydizzy · 20/08/2022 12:53

The human race would have died out millennia ago if there are lots of women who can't breastfeed. Most who tried and couldn't do it didn't get the right help. They were let down.

DreamToNightmare · 20/08/2022 12:55

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:44

do you acknowledge that formula is necessary, @DreamToNightmare ? Do you acknowledge that women should have the freedom to choose how to feed their child? If yes and yes, then how do you suppose women should be able to have the information to make the choice that is right for them and if that means formula, how to prepare and feed it properly and hygienically?

Do you accept the first hand stories on this thread of mums who were unsure how to feed their babies with formula milk because of a lack of information and support? Who was this benefitting? Was depriving them of information making the breastfeeding rate higher?

As I said, I work in Infant Feeding and fully support formula feeding mothers and I absolutely know formula is necessary in many cases and will advocate for it when there is a medical need for it.

And yes, I have worked with many families who are struggling with bottle feeding for many reasons and I support them in the same way I support breast feeding mothers. So yes, I do accept the stories on here that women have included about the struggles of bottle feeding as I know those problems are out there…..I come across them very frequently. I have never denied that women come across difficulties when bottle feeding.

However, I will not actively promote formula feeding over breast feeding.

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:55

A lot of them did die out, Dizzy. It only takes a handful to keep a species going.

Wouldloveanother · 20/08/2022 12:56

But it doesn’t need to be one or the other @DreamToNightmare does it? Nobody is saying you can promote bottle feeding OR breastfeeding. If you truly believe in choice, information should be objectively provided on both, and then the mums can make up their own minds. Why wait until formula feeding mums are struggling before helping them? Nobody would promote that attitude for bfing.