Sister threw DS out of the photo

[HellMc]

My DS (10) has always pulled silly faces in photos, he’s done it since he was a toddler. We tried getting him to stop but it’s like he can’t help himself so we just got on with it. We assumed if we didn’t make a fuss out of it he’s grow out of it but he didn’t. All of his school photos have silly faces etc and now we just laugh. The only photos we have of him not doing a silly face are the natural ones he didn’t know we were taking.

Anyway yesterday me, DS, sister, her kids and my other sisters son went on a day out a national heritage site. Sister wanted a group photo of all the kids so they all stood together in front of the ruins. Sister then said to DS “either stop pulling faces or stand over there out of the photo” 😱 it came as a shock as everyone was laughing at him initially and then she suddenly got mad. I told her I thought she was being a bit harsh and she said “sorry but I’ve been trying to take a nice photo of them all all day for mum and he’s ruined every one so far”.

I told DS to just this once not pull a face but he continued doing so so sister told him to get out of shot. She then took the photo of the other kids and said “there, finally mum will have a photo for her wall”.

so I said mum would want all the kids together so she said “actually, mum told me to take the pic without your ds if he insisted on pulling a face, she was annoyed with the last lot of photos I took her because he’d ruined them all.

I feel hurt, not just about my sister but also what my mum (his grandma!) has clearly been saying!!

AIBu to feel hurt at DS being excluded from a family photo that is destined for my mums wall??

As a work-around, try taking a video while your pretending to take photos, you might catch him before/after he reacts, then you can screen shot a photo from the video.

That or ad hoc quiet action shots - don't draw attention or say your taking any but as go round have phone out and get lots of background shots rather than posed.

Otherwise I'd try consistency of zero tolerance for a while and no laughing or encouragement see if it has any effect on behavior.

Sadly people are extremely mean on here. It's not enough to tell someone they're wrong, you have to tell them they're the biggest shit in history.

As to the matter at hand it does appear that he got into a bit of a bad habit, probably due to the attention he got the first few times he did it. But you do realise he must stop it, and that other people can't be expected to accommodate his bad behaviour.

If there are no additional needs, I think your son has just got into a habit which he’s finding it hard to break. To be fair, when he was a toddler it was probably quite cute, and like all children if they get positive attention they will carry on. However, now he’s at an age that it’s no longer funny or cute but he’s still getting attention although it’s now negative attention.

I would stop telling him to stop pulling faces as it sounds like this is not working and is causing him anxiety and is possibly a trigger.

If I wanted to take a photo of him on a day out and he makes a face I wouldn’t say anything, I would just not take the photo. He’s old enough to make the connection that silly faces = no photo. But you cut out the arguing and pleading.

My son has an issue in that if you tell him to smile he makes this horrible constipated face, he can’t help it and I always had to tell photographers not to tell him to ‘smile’ or ‘say cheese’ etc as this was his trigger, if the photo was taken without all the normal faff he would be fine.

Maybe he will have a think about stopping it. I'd just ask him to step aside for every photo in the meantime. He's old enough to understand why.

I think there's more to this op than you're realising.

And for everyone saying just tell him to stop - anyone a nail biter ? Or a hair twister ? Or a smoker ? Or know anyone with Tourette's or a tic ?
Habits are not as easy to stop as just saying "stop" are they . !

Op , I think since you've spoken to him and practised and he stall feels a compulsion to do it - I'd simply not mention it again . Take two of every phot . One with him in and one without . I feel the more stressful you make it the more hell feel compelled to do it .

I can't believe people with all these pandering solutions. He's old enough to be punished if he acts like a twat and excluded from photos until he behaves. It's clear his own father, aunt and grandmother have had enough. Just do some parenting instead of pandering to his stupid behaviour!

He's 10. He should be able to smile nicely for a photo, even if it's a slightly awkward "kid having a photo taken" smile. Pulling daft faces from toddlerhood to age 10 is ridiculous. I'd have been telling him to stop it too.

I'm swimming against the crowd, and whilst I don't think your sister or mum are unreasonable for using a photo without him, I also don't think it's a huge deal that he does this.

I suspect, given its ALL the time, that something bigger is going on. Anxiety I suspect.

He's your son. He gets one mum and one family. Your job is to make him feel secure and happy. Yes, having manners, but if this is the only 'cheeky' thing he does, then I would let it go. Accept it's his thing and move on. I wouldn't berate him. Just explain that you're ok with it but others may not be but that he should be himself.

Being able to accept yourself, is one of the most important things in life. Don't hurt him over something he may not be able to control.

You sound like a horrible parent! What does a silly photo even matter?! Why would you hurt a child because of it? He's not hurting anyone.

He is hurting people though. It's greatly upsetting the family and he's getting into trouble at school for it. It's not normal. He's a brat that needs discipline. End off.

He is not able to stop this. It's very very clear that there's something more serious going on than just attention seeking, and it's not 'pandering' to look into this.

Last night's conversation, which upset him but he STILL couldn't control his response to the camera, demonstrates that.

I don't know where you get him some help from, but getting angry clearly doesn't work. He's had teachers getting angry with him over it for years. He's had his dad yelling at him (which only 'worked' because he cried and it's not possible to gurn a stupid face and cry at the same time). His aunt got angry and it didn't work. Yet this is an otherwise compliant and well behaved boy.

Like my friend who just doesn't know what to do with his body during a photograph, and so always stands.in an odd way that he simply can't seem to overrule (and he's middle aged now) your DS simply can't work or how to keep his face normal.
I know it sounds hard to believe and that 90% of mumsnetters don't believe it possible, but after years of knowing my otherwise sensible and conforming friend, I'm starting to get it.

I just wish I knew the answer. But I do think it can only be resolved by someone outside the family who is not emotionally invested or frustrated by his behaviour, and who he can confide in and feel comfortable' training himself' with.

Eugh your attitude stinks. It screams bully.

It's not hurting anyone. No one is entitled to a picture of someone else. If they want at pic of him, they should take it as it comes. If they don't want it, so be it.

It's a photo for god's sake. Living with controlling parents is suffocating, especially when they don't understand that some things are beyond people's control. People are allowed body autonomy.

And no, I'm sure it's not hurting anyone. Others just want to tell him how to look which is not their right.

Because it's unclear to many posters myself included if there is something else going on or just poor behavior needing correcting.

Plus any correcting behavior will take time (and consistency)- and OP might long term like to have some photos of her son this age and not in tears.

I agree. But all people need to do is change THEIR expectations. If this is his only misdemeanor then I think he and his parents are doing pretty well!

OP doe she do other things that ate funny sometimes and not funny other times? Like fart noises and flailing about?

It really seems like you're giving him mixed messages. You literally just said that stupid faces have to stop, then said some stupid faces and some normal. It needs to just be no stupid faces. From now on he gets one chance to smile for a photo, either himself or with a group. If he pulls a stupid face say "well that's ruined because you pulled a stupid face. I'm deleting it." Then either take a photo of the rest of the group or put your phone away and move on. He's not actually getting consequences besides being shouted at. There's lots of threats and bribing but no actual consequence.

Oh, honestly! Bringing "people are allowed bodily autonomy" into a thread about a 10 year old arsing about pulling stupid faces in photos 🙄
His human / civil rights are not under threat here.

Sorry but I’m not following this thread anymore, I’ve actually shuddered with shame reading it. It is unequivocally embarrassing and I am getting extreme second hand embarrassment. Perhaps seek behaviour therapy urgently?

No one is entitled to a picture of someone else. If they want at pic of him, they should take it as it comes. If they don't want it, so be it.

Sure but all the aunt did was ask him to either stop pulling silly faces or step out of the photo, he chose not to stop pulling silly faces so she told him step out of the photo. Can you not see why the Grandmother wanted a picture without one of the children pulling a face? It's over shadowing the whole picture and all her other grandchildren, that's not very fair on them or her, is it?

You can roll your eyes all you want.

Why do you think people get to be angry at him over his facial expressions? It's a bloody photo, he can do what he wants in it or they can tell him to get out. But they don't have the right to get angry with him over it.

I think you don't see the complexity in the situation. You're assuming he's doing it on purpose, which I think is dismissive and simplistic.

Thankfully, I think his mum knows getting angry and making him feel bad isn't the answer.

My FIL a very serious man struggled well into his 40s near 50 with grimace of pain look in every posed photo.

Much less posed photos since do seem to have improved that - but he wasn't a brat and was bothered by MIL and his parents being upset by this but seemed powerless to change this - though it has massively improved since then.

It just unclear to me if this is learnt silly behavior that OP has previous tolerate or slightly encouraged finding it funny and it can be improve with zero tolerance or if it's involutory possible anxiety driven - and I think that's because it's not clear at all to the OP.

And that's why I said they either accept it, or he gets out of the photo.

They DONT get to be angry with him.

As far as i can tell the only person that has got angry with him was his father and he was ruining expensive photo's they needed for a passport, the passport office are not going to accept a photo of him making a silly face so as a result he doesn't get a passport. The only reason he has one is because his dad got angry and shouted at him

If he genuinely can’t help it then the OP needs to get help. He may not grow out of it.

The OP says

Sister then said to DS “either stop pulling faces or stand over there out of the photo” 😱 it came as a shock as everyone was laughing at him initially and then she suddenly got mad.

So no, it's not just dad and the passport photo (which I can see what be very annoying).

But if he can't help it, then he can't help it. Getting angry at him is just cruel. He's tried and he can't stop. People need to accept that.

How has he tried? The OP asked him why he does it and he said because "it's funny"