Sister threw DS out of the photo

[HellMc]

My DS (10) has always pulled silly faces in photos, he’s done it since he was a toddler. We tried getting him to stop but it’s like he can’t help himself so we just got on with it. We assumed if we didn’t make a fuss out of it he’s grow out of it but he didn’t. All of his school photos have silly faces etc and now we just laugh. The only photos we have of him not doing a silly face are the natural ones he didn’t know we were taking.

Anyway yesterday me, DS, sister, her kids and my other sisters son went on a day out a national heritage site. Sister wanted a group photo of all the kids so they all stood together in front of the ruins. Sister then said to DS “either stop pulling faces or stand over there out of the photo” 😱 it came as a shock as everyone was laughing at him initially and then she suddenly got mad. I told her I thought she was being a bit harsh and she said “sorry but I’ve been trying to take a nice photo of them all all day for mum and he’s ruined every one so far”.

I told DS to just this once not pull a face but he continued doing so so sister told him to get out of shot. She then took the photo of the other kids and said “there, finally mum will have a photo for her wall”.

so I said mum would want all the kids together so she said “actually, mum told me to take the pic without your ds if he insisted on pulling a face, she was annoyed with the last lot of photos I took her because he’d ruined them all.

I feel hurt, not just about my sister but also what my mum (his grandma!) has clearly been saying!!

AIBu to feel hurt at DS being excluded from a family photo that is destined for my mums wall??

@AgentProvocateur Exactly!

YABU.He’s too old to be doing this. The fact you said he was in tears during the passport photo, OP, suggests maybe he can’t actually control it because it’s become a habit, an ingrained reaction.

Without any camera, practise making ‘photo faces’ with him. Pick one or two faces eg a natural smile, a ‘big’ smile, and make him practise “Natural smile, DS!” “Big smile and hold it! Ok, relax” etc.

Then take some photos while he does his photo faces. Show him, praise or correct him, and keep going until he automatically makes the right face. That way he’ll learn the right habitual reaction.

If he’s actually doing it on purpose and can control it, then maybe have a reward chart where he earns points for unruined photos.

My ds used to be like this, so I sympathise, but I think YABU and your sister did the right thing - she explained what he should do and what the consequences would be, then she followed that through.

The only thing I can suggest, that worked somewhat for my ds, is to talk to him before the occasion, not at the time of the photo, e.g. in the morning before you leave for a day out. Explain that everyone is equally important in a group photo because it's a memento of everyone's day out or school class. When he does silly faces he is drawing attention to himself, which is taking the focus away from others, so they will look less important than him in the photo. Explain that this is rude and unkind, even if that's not what he intends. It's much harder to do this at the time of the photo because that is reinforcing the attention being on him, but you can do a few gentle reminders during the day (and for school class photos ask the teacher to take him aside and remind him). This wasn't always successful with ds, but it helped to break the habit and make him think, and I do at least have some group photos of him just smiling.

How dull to have rules against behaviours that aren't harming anyone and are just a bit quirky.

This is harming others, though - that’s the whole point. In the school photo example, it harms all the other kids and parents in the class because they can’t have the natural school photo that was intended. It certainly harms the photographer if fewer people buy it because one kid is deliberately pulling a face. It harms the school if they’re on a percentage of sales and their coffers suffer etc etc.

A poster upthread gave the example of her brother doing this to their grandparents at a special anniversary in the days of film cameras. An old lady had wanted a special memory to put in a frame - and one child had deliberately spoilt that. They’d have gone to expense printing those photos and would’ve been really disappointed at the outcome. So it’s behaviour that deliberately spoils an outcome for others. It’s akin to cutting a slice out of the cake before the birthday child has blown out the candles, or telling someone what’s in their gift before they’ve had chance to open it. Yes - nobody dies, but it spoils a moment for someone else. And that’s not great behaviour - so by the time you’re 10, you need to understand that. One funny face may be - well - funny. But repeatedly, when you’ve been asked not to do so and given a good reason (ie so granny can get a nice picture) is rude and just very inconsiderate of others.

With the obvious caveat that we have only the OP's account to go on, the other child "grabbed her and threw her to the floor." Nothing about being on one leg. She had indeed continued dancing around after being asked to stop; whether that counts as "up in the other child's face", I don't know. Other child was close enough to lay hands on her, so possibly.

The point I'm making is that while nobody came out of it covered in glory, I would have thought that laying hands on another person in anger with the intention of doing something forceful to them, and sending them to the ground, would be considered more serious than being a dancing nuisance.

However, a lot of posters seemed to think it was OK, partly because dancing girl was being annoying (no doubt) but to a large extent because she was being "attention seeking", and I think affairs are the only thing MN considers worse than that...even in a 9/10 year old child. Or, to use some of the language on this thread, a twat, a prick, deserving of assault and so on.

I think, as the thread moved on it became fairly clear that one child had pushed the other away from her.

But I agree both girls needed a stern talking to when they got home.

Unlikely.

I suspect the OPs all disappeared because so many people were telling them what shit parents they are and how shit their kids are.

I dunno. Same age, all only children, absolutely refuse to stop their annoying behaviour, tears and tantrums when made to, a passed off aunt finally stepping in..

I agree with the previous poster, all very similar.

OP made only three posts, and no elaboration on the incident past the first one.

Clearly girl was being a pain, dancing around everyone after being asked to stop. Action needed, sure. My point is just that MN has a thing about "attention seeking" and that if you appear to be doing it, there can be no kind explanation and no disproportionate consequence.

Nothing in the threads about whether they're only children or not, and it wouldn't be relevant even if they were.

Say 'I know you get nervous when you're having your photo taken and that's why you pull a silly face to make people laugh, and it is really funny
Drop the it is really funny. Tell the truth and say it's not funny at all.

I get a very different feel from the OP’s writing style here somehow, and there’s no mention of tantrums or other problems - just fighting back tears.
Anyway, the OP certainly stuck around long enough to get the general idea!

Sorry OP, but YABU and people really do get tired of children pulling silly faces for every single photo especially when asked multiple times not to. I mean there are face editors like Photoworks or Photodiva where faces can be edited a bit or smiles could be added, but this doesn't sound like the case it would work for, so taking the photo without someone who ruins it would be easier. Also 10 is a but too old to not know when it's time to stop with silly faces.

Its less about the silly faces imo and more about the disobedience. It's highly dangerous to allow children to continually disregard the instructions of the trusted adults in their lives. Silly faces might not matter, but the principle does. By supporting him against her sister, the OP has taught her son that his aunt's instructions can be ignored. Let's hope his 'free spirited quirkiness' never involves putting himself or others in danger given he doesn't need to take no for an answer.

I have not disappeared. I’m still reading however there is only so much you can say to “your child is a twat and you’re shit”

@HellMc

did you have the conversation with him last night? How did it go?

whilst I did vote yabu and agree with lots of comments, I do hope you’re ok

To all those nasty trolls saying horrible things about OPs child. Wow betide a 10 year old child for being childish!

OP was looking for support. Maybe helpful suggestions instead of nastiness. You have to remember OP that the nasty comments are not from normal people, they are trolls. They are there just to wind you up.

You’re doing okay OP. Maybe tell DS he wouldn’t want to make people sad under normal circumstances so don’t do it when taking a photo

The OP got many helpful suggestions. Hopefully she is focusing on those and taking on board the more measured comments about her child's unfair and annoying behaviour.

there is only so much you can say to “your child is a twat and you’re shit”

This is the beauty of MN, though - for all it can be really harsh at times. It’s not personal - people don’t know you, or your son. But what it does give you is a ‘no holds barred’ insight into how others see a situation, which you can never, ever get in real life, as people just aren’t that direct.

Some people go out of their way to be horrible, so just ignore that. But most people try to be constructive. Basically - what you’ve got from this is an answer that most people (not all, but a large majority) would find your son’s behaviour over this matter very annoying. You’ve found out that your mum and sister obviously do - but now you can put that into a wider context. That’s helpful, surely? Even if you decide that you disagree with them, it’s better to know what they think and the basis on which they think it? Much easier to have a discussion on that basis, if nothing else.

My son has a friend that does this, it drives everyone insane but he won't stop, I wonder what it is!? Hope your conversation went well!

i appreciate this thread probably upset her, it really is in her best interests to understand that her zany-hilarious son is actually a nuisance and try to manage that accordingly

whether it’s because he’s anxious or just naughty I dunno but hopefully it can be resolved because I’m sure he doesn’t like to be left o

It isnt his fault he is "a twat" as people are calling him.

It's yours. And you need to own that.

You've laughed indulgently even when you've been annoyed/embarrassed. When he brings home the school photo proofs and you see that he was removed from the class photo, I'm guessing you've told him that its ok and the school were taking it too seriously/being unfair or some variations on that so as he doesn't feel bad. You've allowed him to ruin family photos despite people clearly being fed up about it.

Then the passport. He is 10. I have a 10 year old and an 8 year old. They

We have an adult friend who is like this, we were visiting an historic site in Tunisia. Whenever we wet up to take a picture she would appear round a column gurning or pulling at her clothes in an inappropriate way.
Total nightmare. DH had to go back next day to get a set of usable pictures.