Sister threw DS out of the photo

[HellMc]

My DS (10) has always pulled silly faces in photos, he’s done it since he was a toddler. We tried getting him to stop but it’s like he can’t help himself so we just got on with it. We assumed if we didn’t make a fuss out of it he’s grow out of it but he didn’t. All of his school photos have silly faces etc and now we just laugh. The only photos we have of him not doing a silly face are the natural ones he didn’t know we were taking.

Anyway yesterday me, DS, sister, her kids and my other sisters son went on a day out a national heritage site. Sister wanted a group photo of all the kids so they all stood together in front of the ruins. Sister then said to DS “either stop pulling faces or stand over there out of the photo” 😱 it came as a shock as everyone was laughing at him initially and then she suddenly got mad. I told her I thought she was being a bit harsh and she said “sorry but I’ve been trying to take a nice photo of them all all day for mum and he’s ruined every one so far”.

I told DS to just this once not pull a face but he continued doing so so sister told him to get out of shot. She then took the photo of the other kids and said “there, finally mum will have a photo for her wall”.

so I said mum would want all the kids together so she said “actually, mum told me to take the pic without your ds if he insisted on pulling a face, she was annoyed with the last lot of photos I took her because he’d ruined them all.

I feel hurt, not just about my sister but also what my mum (his grandma!) has clearly been saying!!

AIBu to feel hurt at DS being excluded from a family photo that is destined for my mums wall??

OP I think you've handled what has been a rough thread very well.

He is going to be upset as you are starting to be firm

My observation from some examples you've posted is that perhaps you and your DH have slightly different strategies on parenting (stick vs carrot)

I would suggest that you both sit down and agree a way forward that isn't just about silly faces in photos but behaviour overall (I know you've said he's a lovely boy but he may start testing boundaries). Find some compromise that means your DH doesn't get overly cross but equally, there are consequences to his actions rather than bribing.

Stay strong and firm on this-I know it's going to be short term shitty but I'm sure it will pay off in the long run!

Try getting him to say something rather than just smile. Our school photographer always gets the children to say 'smelly wellies' when she takes their photo if they aren't smiling as it relaxes their face into a smile.

@Fruitygal yes she said he's been removed from his class photos and there's only one where he's in it and he looks like he's crying because he's been told off for presumably pulling faces

After you had that discussion and he got upset, then you practiced and he still made faces.

What was his reaction?

@Gasmeters thanks for telling me - I am not surprised.

Wonder if this is a wider behavioural issue or if its a nervous response - I have one DC who used to do a little smile when he was nervous but teacher took it the wrong way when she was questioning him about an incident.

I haven't read the whole lengthy thread, just your own updates. Of course this must be incredibly irritating for everyone, but to me it sounds like this has become an unconscious reaction to photos, a bit like a tourettes tic or a phobia response. The fact that he's not able to do just one practice photo without reacting is odd. I'd consider getting him some phobia-type counselling to work out what's going on in his mind at the time.
As a work-around, try taking a video while your pretending to take photos, you might catch him before/after he reacts, then you can screen shot a photo from the video.

Fantastic workaround actually!

OP you've taken this thread well, posters can get very "in the moment" and reactive when they imagine themselves in that situation and that comes out in their reply's.

I do wonder if there is something underlying here as you've said your son is a generally bright and lovely child yet it seems he physically cant stop what hes doing. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for you and everyone involved.

This also shows how certain behaviors in toddlers that arent managed can quickly become out of control.

Don’t be disheartened. He’s been allowed to do this his whole life; you were never going to unpick it in one night. The crucial thing is that you are now consistent and firm on the issue.

@HellMc
“He was upset and I felt awful.”

I think you’re going to have to tolerate him being upset if you want to tackle this, it’s been skirted around for too long

not sure why told him from now on photos can be a mix of silly and normal faces, you should have just said no more silly faces cos he’s too old and they’re not funny and no one likes them

It's going to take time. He's got to learn to stop doing something that's been getting him laughs and attention for as long as he can remember.

You need to carry on being firm and like you did last night, end the photo taking and withdraw.

He will learn. It just won't happen quickly.

I think although he’s 10, you need to treat him like a toddler who is testing boundaries. Be consistent.

Pulling faces for photos is not funny
As soon as he pulls a face, the camera goes away and the photo is deleted.
Consistency is key. Not laughing sometimes and getting annoyed sometimes.
Not showing any amusement on your face, even if you find it funny every now and again. No mixed signals.

If I got desperate I’d probably try a group photo of all the kids again, with a request to him to do a normal face. The next group one could be all the kids with an ice cream. If he ruined the last photo with a silly face, he can’t be in the ice cream one (and therefore no ice cream).

He will get upset, and you’ll have to guide him through it. He’s upset, but HE can resolve the situation with a really simple solution. Help him see that

not sure why told him from now on photos can be a mix of silly and normal faces, you should have just said no more silly faces cos he’s too old and they’re not funny and no one likes them

She did say that, the trouble is she said both in the same conversation!

He was upset and I felt awful.

He got upset because he has learnt that this has worked on you in the past. You have to hold firm. You both have behaviours to unlearn here and it won’t happen overnight.

To Be honest he sounds very attention seeking and he's getting what he wants with all the drama this has caused

You shouldn't need to "practice" FGS

just ignore him in future. Refuse to take any photos from Now on

Judging by his reaction last night he is clearly not aware that - outside of class pictures- there's consequences for pulling faces in group pics. Clearly he's got away with doing this everywhere (except school) his whole life and perhaps that's why he's so resistant to change. Sounds like the rest of the family were waiting for the parents to put a stop to it, but eventually his gran and aunty, understandably, stepped in to stop another photo being ruined. Maybe this will be the thing that gets it into his head that it's not funny?

That said I still feels it could be something he almost feels compelled to do... perhaps a bit of serious discussion may help him bring out what's going on in his head to 'make' him do this each time? I mean yeah it could just be him, but something about this is very odd, so it wouldn't hurt to look at underlying reasons.

Poor child, he is attention seeking. Everyone laughs when he pulls a face and he wants to be the family joker so he does it more. OP try and understand why he feels he needs to do this. Lots of kids hate having their photo taken maybe it is way of not being in the photos as he hates them.

Maybe he thinks he’s ugly so making ugly faces is better to him than showing his actual face
maybe he can try brooding or something if smiling is a bit much or feels weird to him
but obviously work on how he sees himself too

You absolutely need to hold your ground here. I wouldn't make a big deal of it. I'd just ask him to step out of each photo if he was pulling faces and give your wider family permission to do the same . There is obviously an attention seeking element to this so I if he's not getting any reaction along with not being in any photos, I'm sure he'll learn soon enough that there is no point.

Look I think it will take a while for him to get his head around it because for years you’ve given him positive reinforcement.

Perhaps he’s scared that when he stops he’ll get comments like “thank god you’ve stopped doing that”. Maybe you can ask the relatives to not make a big deal out of it if he doesn’t pull a face but to remove him from photos when he does. A consistent reaction from everyone.

I also haven't read the whole thread but my daughter refused to have photos taken of her with the family from the age of about 13-20. She would pull faces or hide her face in every single one. We ended just not taking any photos of her (although not being a big 'photo' family' we weren't particularly bothered). Now age 25 she is really, really sad that there are no photos of her as a teenager with her family, she really regrets it. She doesn't blame us and admits she was just being awkward. Fortunately, she has photos of herself taken with her friends but its not the same as on family holidays. She is far more bothered by it than us! I'd suggest that you decide how much it really matters to you and if not too much then just ignore him let him decide whether or not he wants to be in a photo, what the rules are, and if he says no he won't stop the faces just accept he won't be in it. By the way, I now have many beautiful photos of my 25 year old.

i think you should encourage him practicing with a mirror @HellMc so he can see what “silly” face, normal face and smiling face look like

The OP has stated in a few posts that he asks her to take pictures of him though

This is actually the one situation where selfies are your friend.

Get him to practise taking them himself. Give him a list of faces - happy, sad, bored, excited, hungry etc - and get him to practise different ones with no audience.

I think this is becoming a psychological issue for your son and it is turning into a compulsion because of the disproportionate focus on it. You must no longer mention it - you have addressed it and now it is time to do something different.

I do not have a smartphone and I hate the constant photo-ing of today's children and making them pose. I also hate the narcissism it feeds in kids 'take a photo/video of me.' When I got rid it was a huge relief. It means I don't have many photos but the ones I do are great and purposeful. It meant my daughter stopped requesting to be on my phone and in pictures which was a pain in the arse.

Try putting away the silly camera for a start - maybe he's simply reacting to the constant pressure for posing photographs. So don't take any more. Not as a rejection but because it is causing an issue for everyone. If you can't bear to be without your phone clicking away then try and take them when he is in the moment and doing something natural without him seeing. Stop asking him to pose at all - after all, kids have to put up with this constant photographic invasion of their space and privacy while they are doing things and enjoying themselves.

All our childhood photos were in-the-moment. Very few were posed. I think his issue actually demonstrates the toxicity of the constant cameras.

Going on and on at him is going to make the behaviour worse - it's not a big deal if he's not in some photos - don't make him feel ashamed because he's not in them - it's not an emotional thing it's a pragmatic thing.

I also think MN absolutely must protect children and prevent them being abused with filthy language. How is strangers effing and blinding about children any different to the ones that do it in reality - the principles are the same. MN should set a principle of no swearing about children.