To wonder why so many women put up with this shit

[Stylishkidintheriot]

www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/15/how-to-achieve-an-equal-split-of-household-chores-kate-mangino#comment-158160830

I don’t get it: I really don’t. Not in this day and age.

if a man isn’t pulling his weight, why the fuck would you stay in a relationship or have children with him?

I don’t get it either but I’m childfree and suspect a lot of the motivation is children: if you want them and aren’t certain you’ll meet somebody else (or somebody better) in time then it might seem the better the devil you know and better to have children with a lazy partner than potentially not have children at all. And after that, you need the partner to help pay the bills or pay them all for you if you want to be a SAHM, don’t want to swap the nice house for the small flat you’d be able to afford if single, go without seeing your DC everyday etc.

Otherwise, low self esteem probably plays a part: if you’ve always had crap partners and don’t think you’re worth much more then there’s not much impetus to seek out better.

I think lots of women put up with it because they've been conditioned into thinking they should

And also they think they should be the one to give up work /go part time and therefore put themselves in the position of being chief of housework and childcare

I don’t get it either I’m going to sound awful but I hear so many single mums saying it’s easier now that they are not with their ex because he never did anything he would just sit there and ignore them even when they or the children were sick and I just think really?! How did you have a child with this person and most times it’s multiple children, they would say their ex never lifted a finger round the house never looked after the children so it’s easier not being with him

Desperation? Think they can't get anyone better?

I think some of them also think pleasant, normal men who do their own laundry and cooking are a complete myth. They weren't raised by them or with them, nor were their friends. They've never met one so they can't exist. They've only met gross manbabies who sit in dirty underwear on an Xbox in a filthy room all day. Some then post that they've had babies with them and they're still in the same underpants in the same filthy room.

It could be a class thing? All the men I know can get the baby up, dressed and in the sling and go out for a walk with absolutely no fuss. They leave work early to pick them up from school. They care for them at the weekends while the wife goes bike-riding or is on a weekend away with friends. This is all considered so normal as to be unremarkable.

But then you get women like my mum, who've never known a man could use a hoover and who still live in the 50s. Men don't cook. Men shout. Men go to the pub. Men don't look at or interact with children. She thinks my husband is 'odd' for being a caring parent. She thinks a man walking with his child down the street is "unusual."

What baffles me is how many still share my mum's views right here in threads. "Hi, I'm 22 years old and I've married a man who says I have to give up my job and stay at home cooking. Hi, I'm 25 and my husband refuses to watch the kids while I brush my teeth." It does seem so strange that younger, more educated women who have clearly seen normal men on the TV, at least, or read about them in books, end up with 1950s throwbacks.

I agree with the article that a lot of this is about getting off on the right foot.

Before we moved in together, we had a detailed conversation about how thing were going to work, who was going to do what chore etc. And we don't accept the other person not doing their stuff. Of course, it's different when one of us is ill or something but by and large, we stick to it.

Same when we had our kids, we talked about how we would manage pick ups and drop offs and we both went 4 days a week

I know that some posters will scoff at this and say "don't you just pitch in and see what needs doing" but I am in an equal relationship and the people I know who did the "pitch in" thing are not...

I don't think they do, in terms of feeling happy or even okay with it.

The choice often is, to put up with it or to live in a financially more impoverished environment and to deal with all the issues of blended families. Not everyone can cope with all that easily. Someone who feels really entitled will not help however much you explain how you feel.

A lot of women are in denial and haven't learnt that they deserve better as they weren't treated well in their own families of origin. If they haven't they may not have learnt how to set out boundaries from the beginning and being really clear about expectations.

@Lunalae

I've seen of women on mn ssy my oh is happy/delighted/loves that I'm a sahm and I always think that should have been your first warning

It's not stupid women staying with lazy men it's that this pattern is not so noticeable before children. Less washing, jobs get shared more - you clean up the kitchen together etc. But once DC are in the mix then the dynamic switches, it starts with mat leave, suddenly women are the 'expert' and men often take a back seat as they carry on working. Unless you have a good support network mat leave is essentially hours and hours of being alone in a house with a baby, so it makes sense to do the cleaning and prep so you can get out with dh at the weekend rather than spending all the family time doing the chores. Then you go back to work and it's then very very difficult to reverse this pattern and ends up being the woman 'nagging' for change.

Covid was a big reset for us, dh now in the house more than I am so he does more housework etc. Without COVID he would still be out of the house mon-fri as he works long hours with a 2 hour commute and I'd be trying to work everything around my full time (but local) job too.

Because life is complex and often people trade off aspects they would like to get benefits in other areas.

For example, you might take a job which is more poorly paid but which you enjoy. Or you might take a job you hate which is well paid.

Similarly you might choose to stay in a relationship with a man you adore and who treats you fantastically in every other area, but who doesn't do household chores. Or you might choose to stay in one for financial security / never having to work again even if it meant only having two children instead of three.

It's a rare and lucky person who is 100% happy, fulfilled and having all their needs met in all their areas of life all the time. Most people have to compromise somewhere. Where you draw that line is up to you.

I don't get it either. Conditioning?

My husband does half if not the majority of the housework and cooking. I wouldn't have married him otherwise. I'm not a domestic servant.

Yep agree with @Stichintimesavesstapling. Much of this is not obvious until you have DC. By that time, when they realise, it's a much bigger decision for women to decide not to be with the partner who is now, more clearly, somewhat useless. Yes we should have discussed all these things before we have children but some, not all, are caught up with the excitement of a relationship beforehand and those discussions aren't had. It's much less noticeable before you have children for many. Also once some women have time off to care for a young baby, a dynamic has started to be set where because they are at home for that period, they take on some additional domestic work and then find it hard to get that evenly shared again. It's not right but it is common I think

I don’t get it either, but I see it in real life all the time. I know someone who lays out her husbands clothes for the day before she leaves for her full-time job. My husband and I have had our struggles in division, but we both agree that the split should be 50:50 and it’s just finding the particular split that plays to individual strengths. Men that don’t want that kind of egalitarian relationship are supremely unattractive to me. Like, literal physical cringe feelings.

I agree. It baffles me that women on here have kids, then say that their partner does nothing, and confesses he did nothing before kids. In which case why on earth did you think fathering children would change that? If you found life hard with two kids and a useless man, why the hell did you try for a third? It seems utter madness to me.

@winterlilies your post depresses me too I’m afraid. Why on earth stick it out? How could it be worth it?

I simply couldn't be with a man who wasn't my equal partner.

No one with helathy self esteem would tolerate that

I’ve never understood it. Often the woman is then trapped as they are a SAHP. I just don’t get the choices some women make. So many threads on here not just about husbands but partners treating them like shit when they are living in the posters house!!!

Does there have to be a next man? So many dickheads around it’s perhaps better to stay single.

I agree. Who says you need a next one? And surely you’ll know the flags to look out for for the next one?

Because romantic love/marriage is vastly oversold to women, as is motherhood.

And this is why so many man do it. Because it's tolerated. Sometimes it is a case of making rod for your own back. If you rather tolerate this rather than be single (if children are not in picture) than it is self inflicted martyrism or low self esteem. Or both

I think some couples just gradually fall into this pattern and then resentment builds

I know women and men who only like things done a certain way, the kitchen or other areas of the house are their domain

also different priorities on what needs to be done should be done and while juggling work and childcare it’a too much of an effort to make plans on who does what

and people change it’s not always overnight

For the past 27 years I’ve always done nearly all of the household chores and my DH earned nearly all the money. He’s been able to retire recently at 55 and we now split the housework, cooking, chores etc 50/50. We have been and are happy with our set up.