To wonder why so many women put up with this shit

[Stylishkidintheriot]

www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/15/how-to-achieve-an-equal-split-of-household-chores-kate-mangino#comment-158160830

I don’t get it: I really don’t. Not in this day and age.

if a man isn’t pulling his weight, why the fuck would you stay in a relationship or have children with him?

Agree that women are conditioned to accept lazy men. Another thing though is that a lot of women (not me I might add) on mn and presumably irl are looking for a “provider” not someone who will be an equal. We need to stop accepting gender stereotypes altogether- we can’t expect men to conform to one type of stereotype if it suits us but not another.

but yet on many threads a man not contributing financially is a cocklodger yet a woman is a hard working sahm.

@Lockheart

You replied to a post saying women should make their own money saying well its not so easy if you've not worked 20 years

My point was, dont take 20 years out if you want financial security.

'Raising kids' isn't an excuse

Most of these women are pleasure and enablers
And martyrs ....

For me to start off with it was about control and that's why I started doing the housework and cooking. I'd seen how he lived in a flat with his mate and didn't want our flat to have toilets you barely want to pee in and stuff like that. Also his food portions were massive and I was very slender then so I wanted to control what I ate, so ended up doing all the cooking.

I wouldn't choose to give up my career.

But many women do. Some don't get a choice if their DC have additional needs.

And if they have left their careers then they may choose to compromise on things like sharing housework for financial security.

I don't think it's right to start disparaging them for not having "actual" lives or trying to sum up their existence as "wiping arses".

I'm single and very lonely and actually pretty bitter about it if I'm honest. But I'm still better off than women who put up with these vile men-children. The shit they put up with. Not doing housework, not making time for them, having to look after his fucking kids or reminding him to have a wash every day if he expects a blowjob. Same with tightarses sharing cans of Fanta or freeloaders with no shame or self respect whatsoever. Absolutely repulsive. I'd rather be bitter and lonely in my own home for the next 40 years than share one with someone like that, let alone actually have sex with it.

Fuck. That.

Again, that is not what compromise is. Compromising is meeting someone half way, or agreeing to terms that work for both parties. What you and that poster mean is "concession". Conceding grudgingly to enable the relationship to continue.

As things changed though, moved to a bigger place, had kids, my job became more senior and responsible, we did regularly review who does what and when, exactly as it says in the article.

I would have loved to have been a SAHM until the kids were a bit older but we just couldn't afford it and my job was better paid even if I did it part time. It's horses for courses and it was actually much easier for me to go part time then than it was for DH. I'm in a very senior role at work and am certainly no mug, at home, work, or anywhere else.

Some don't get a choice if their DC have additional needs.
Still a choice as to which parent takes on the caring responsibility.

Still a choice as to which parent takes on the caring responsibility

Not much choice if you've already been on mat leave/SAHP and the main carer and partner is the higher earner. Also it is still actually more difficult for many men to go PT in their jobs as mostly women do it, plus they don't always have the support network when they are at home with kids. So it isn't just a free choice - society put barriers in the way and people don't always want to be the crusader doing something different.

My friend's partner is one of these. Completely incompetent (but doesn't even try to be competent), more interested in going out on the piss, can't solo parent for more than about an hour at a time and has her run ragged with household chores, mental load and childcare - all while she holds down a full time job. It's so sad to watch.

She will try to normalise his behaviour or make out like she's in the wrong for wanting his behaviour to change, which I think is sadly a mark of low self esteem, as I genuinely do not know what she sees in him. I can only conclude low self-esteem, and maybe a misplaced optimism that they can "change" their partners, is what keeps some women in relationships with these complete and utter man-children.

I've been with my DH over 40 years... He don't bake cakes, do ironing and I don't fix the cars or hang wallpaper.
Yes we have our own chores we do, me being the major shareholder and him working longer hours and we bob along just fine.
He's great at mending anything that needs fixing and does so without much elbow shunting, so that's the trade off.
We're been empty nesters for a while now and the amount that needs doing around the home household wise is minimal.

but yet on many threads a man not contributing financially is a cocklodger yet a woman is a hard working sahm.

A man that stays at home, does housework and looks after the kids is also a hard working SAHP, a cocklodger is a totally different animal.

I think in a lot of cases, things start out fairly even. Young couple, both pull their own weight, all is domestic bliss.

Then she gets pregnant and has a baby, total amount of chores goes up. Man does the same amount he did previously, woman picks up the slack because she's on maternity leave and has more time during the day to do it (and yes I know actually having more time is debatable, but if you're in the house more, you're physically more able to do it during those hours even if there's a baby hanging off your arm).

6 months or a year goes by, the new balance has embedded itself, and then the woman goes back to work, but the balance doesn't change. And voila, you've ended up with a lazy man who doesn't pull his weight, even if he wasn't like that at the start.

But lots of them have 2/3/4 children so that still doesn’t explain why go on to have more with this lazy useless man?

I didn’t realise until we’d had our first baby. I shouldn’t have had another, but I guess I just hoped it would improve. And then, of course, I was committed. Took me years to leave because I didn’t want to be alone with children.

Except not all SAHM have shit husbands. DH (76, but with a very strong minded mother who encouraged independence in ALL her children) has always pulled his weight and taken pride in doing so. We have swapped jobs around by agreement from time to time but he's always done a fair share

And when I went back to full time employment the balance shifted again, he took it in his stride because he's not a lazy, entitled fucker

I know I got suckered into it. I started making sandwiches for my ex, and then a packed lunch. And then ironing his shirts.

I have no idea why. My self esteem was low and I guess I was trying to make sure his homelife was extremely attractive and he couldn't possibly live without me?

Don't worry, I saw the error of my ways. My DH is 50/50 entirely - we play to our strengths.

• Conditioning: to some extent women are still raised to be ''nice'' and take care of others at the expense of their own needs. Society is very much geared towards families/couples and the message is that women cannot be happy/fulfilled without a man.
• children: some will turn a blind eye to the fact that a man is lazy and immature because they really want to get married and start a family. Then things get worse when they have children and the man of course continues to be useless and does not pull his weight but then the woman thinks of herself as ''trapped''
• a shortage of decent men who respect women and want equal long term relationship. I think anyone who has been on the dating scene, especially online, will know that good, single men in reality are not that easy to find
• Lack of self-esteem and poor body image which is lethal if you are targeted by an abusive, narcissist man. Many women will slowly get trapped in these toxic relationships and struggle to free themselves from their abuser
• the fact that men still get away with shitty behaviour...we have a society where men still make the rules.

I was speaking to someone who is an NHS trauma counsellor and she said she has several clients who are just desperate to be in relationships and who just want a man, any man, because they scared to be alone or see it as a failure. She also see women who stick to abusive partner and she has to work hard to guide them to finally see the there is no good reason for them to be in that relationship anymore. Very sad but not that uncommon.

Sunk cost fallacy. You've put this much into the relationship, you've got one child, you want them to have a sibling. It's not like being a single parent is going to be less work

Who brings up all these useless man anyway. I don't understand how parents just let them get into that state and then release them to grab some new sucker to care for them

@winterlilies "A lot of men straight up refuse, or reluctantly do the tasks you ask them to do but will punish you for it with bad moods & then you have to ask them repeatedly forever because they'll never just get up and do it themselves.
Sometimes it's just not worth the aggro.
I've even heard some men threaten to leave their wife/girlfriend for another woman who 'would be happy to do all the housework'. It's horrible."

And this was my first husband ^^

After 5 years I finally grew a backbone and told him to 'shape up or ship out', and you can guess the rest.
Now he's married to a girl who's happy to be a sexual housekeeper so he doesn't have to lift a finger.

Me, I got me a guy who was in the military, can cook a Sunday lunch, cleans shoes, irons better than I do, cleans the lavvy and can make sponge cakes !

Because some men (and some women) still think chores should be split based on salary rather than hours worked

So even if both people in the relationship work full time with a similar commute time there is still a perception in some couples that the higher earner can do less housework because they are 'the breadwinner'

When you add in the gender pay gap, women's careers being affected by having children/caring responsibilities etc that tends overall to favour the man.

My DH thought this was a fair split, until I started earning more, then all of a sudden he had a change of heart...

Tbf I hadn't let him get away with it when he was the higher earner, I believe in 50/50 based on time available. So because I wfh and he commutes I have a little extra time in the house so I tend to do a little more. But on the odd occasion he does wfh/I need to travel for work I expect the same from him.

I went to work (Manual / Building trade) at 6.30am, came home at 6pm, sometimes later, would cook the dinner, for my wife, our 2 young children and I. I would then play with my children, get them ready for bed, put them in bed, read or make up stories and say goodnight. I loved it, but sometimes i was absolutely knackered before i got home.