To wonder why so many women put up with this shit

[Stylishkidintheriot]

www.theguardian.com/money/2022/aug/15/how-to-achieve-an-equal-split-of-household-chores-kate-mangino#comment-158160830

I don’t get it: I really don’t. Not in this day and age.

if a man isn’t pulling his weight, why the fuck would you stay in a relationship or have children with him?

@NewBlueGoo

But they are putting up with it

Its not internalised mysoginy to acknowledge that.

They aren't responsible for men's behaviour. Only what they are willing to tolerate

I mean, are we actually curious to know the many and various reasons why women stay with men in these situations? Or is 'why do women put up with this;' just one of those rhetorical questions, opening up the floor to have a pop at women we think are desperate or unambitious or unenlightened or stupid or ignorant or otherwise beneath us? I just hate the sneeriness of these posts.

It's a mistake to assume that so many women "put up" with this.

You're starting from the point that everything in a relationship should be equal. This sounds fine on the face of it, but the relationships that work best are often ones where partners bring different abilities to the table. It doesn't have to be the case that each partner must earn exactly the same as the other, so it's illogical to assume that other things have to be exactly equal.

I mean, if you want something to be split exactly equally, that's fine, you should communicate that with your partner and you're free to leave the relationship if they have a different perspective.

Some women actually like being a SAHM for example, and some men are happy to work and support their partner in being a SAHM. By the logic that everything should be 50/50, each partner should work 2.5 days per week and bring home the same salary. But that might not be what either person wants?

Women are not responsible for policing lazy man. Women are responsible for own lives and what they will accept in their lives. It's not any extra job...

Women also do have the power to procreate eith only suitable partners. We have minimum of 10 easily accessible types of contraception with great levels of success... The power is very much with us if we want it.

When they freedom to do so without possibility of prison or death of course....

Thanks to a previous MN thread, I am reading Fair Play - its all about getting away from the idea of woman as the home organiser who has her head full of a thousand things that need to be followed up and done, and the man maybe doing a bit to "help". The aim is for both to have more time to do their own thing, and more headspace by willingly taking on a whole task each, and the other trusting them to do it properly.

Equal doesn't have to mean 50-50 on everything.
It can mean one person does more of cleaning while other dows more of gardening or diy. It becomes unequal when the gardening is 30 min job a week while cleaning is 6 hours (random time examples) and partner 2 says "well I did my share". One person works more hours, the other does some more housework.

What is the problem is when someone does nothing or bare minimum and it's left to the other partner who already has massive load.

@Dotjones

You're starting from the point that everything in a relationship should be equal.

You aren't?

Maybe that's the problem.

@Topgub

It is naive to say women are 'putting up with it' as though they are fondly indulging male entitlement because they agree with it, or don't know any better, or whatever. Most women I know try EVERY SINGLE DAY to negotiate a better balance of household labour. Some are just biding their time until they are in a position to leave without massively financially compromising themselves and their children.

Some have decided that for the time being it is just easier to crack on with what they are doing than have constant arguments with someone they love, whose company they enjoy, and with whom they have shared all their most important memories for over half their lives. That is a choice people are entitled to make. It's a compromise, like most things in long relationships and families.

It's not as simple (for most people) as saying 'if you do not do exactly 50% of everything, I will stop caring about you, stop accepting care from you, disrupt our kids' lives, disrupt all sorts of relationships within the wider extended family, and make us all poorer in the midst of a huge cost of living crisis.'

It's a compromise, like most things in long relationships and families.

That isn't a compromise. That is surrendering. Giving up.

@NewBlueGoo

I havent said any of those things

I'm saying women shouldn't accept it from the start.

Also, you kind of appear to be suggesting that it's worth it for financial security.

Fuck that.

Make your own financial security

In your opinion. People ascribe different levels of importance to different things. Being happy overall in a relationship consists of many threads. If shared housework is crucially important to you then yes, it would seem like giving up. If shared housework doesn't matter to you or if you rate other things more highly, then perhaps not.

Everyone has their own preferences and boundaries and everyone is different.

What was that one at the start of the holidays who shat all up the stairs and made his wife clean it up? Or the ones who hit their children. Or the ones who point out other women and say "she's fit and you're a cow."

It's not just chores. Some of the "normal" behaviour reported here under a title of "oo my diddy dumpling did a wee boo boo" is frightening. Because if you think shitting on the stairs or belting a toddler is "oo I'm not sure, am I over-reacting and being a bitch like he says I am?" worthy, how much else have you been letting slide.

No one's saying it's women's 'fault', but educating half the population that you don't have to put up with being called names, treated like shit, told you're a useless bitch and you'll never find anyone better can't hurt in the long run.

@MorrisZapp
exactly - believe people when they tell you or show you who they are. Don’t go for the version of the person/or events that you would prefer.

I was very unwell for almost a year not long into starting my relationship with my OH. He was very supportive and caring, bent backwards to help me get the care I needed - this was during the worst of the pandemic, when the NHS was practically for COVID only - looked after me and all the things I couldn’t do because I was so unwell.

fast forward, I’m now 9 months pregnant and he has, again, been supportive, caring, and I have no fears about what kind of father he will be or the future of our relationship in terms of equality

Where is the compromise? You want him to do housework. He doesn't want to do housework. So you do all the housework. I'm not seeing the compromise. He got what he wanted. You gave up wanting what you wanted.

That's not what this thread is about though. Loads of couples happily decide that one of them will do the bulk of the housework. This thread is about men who should be doing more, and whose wives despair of their laziness or ineptitude.

Also staying in a dismal marriage "for nice holidays" - christ almighty. Have some dignity.

Too much talk of finances here. Being stuck with a man for his big manly salary. Get a proper job and live off your own big salary. Look at the dickheaded mediocre men on big pay packets. It's all there for you too.

Don't people agree these things before they live together? DH and i agreed equal split of income and an bonuses like insurance policy pay outs and inheritances, equal division of chores ( and no ironing for each other ever). We also agreed no salt in the cooking and no instant coffee, plus a stock of 8 bottles in the wine rack minimum. I think we did quite well bearing in mind we were engaged within a fortnight of meeting. 38 years later I can confirm it has made for domestic harmony.

This is easy to say if you're in your 20s with no dependents. Not so easy for a woman in her mid-40s who has been out of the workplace for 20 years with children to look after.

@Lockheart

Why would she have been our the workplace for 20 years?!

We don’t split 50/50 simply because my husband works more days than me and additionally works overtime to keep us afloat. I’m not going to bitch at him for working a 65 hrs week and not offering up a 50% split of the childcare and household running. If you both work equal amounts etc I would think it reasonable to actually set out the expectations you both have. My DH knows on my days in work he needs to do a bit of washing or cleaning but that’s because we have an understanding through communication.

The compromise is (per @NewBlueGoos post which you responded to) doing the housework in order to remain in a relationship "with someone they love, whose company they enjoy, and with whom they have shared all their most important memories for over half their lives."

We might not agree with that choice, but it's that particular woman's choice to make.

Life (and people) are not black and white. It's not easy to walk away from someone who overall benefits your life because they won't e.g. do the housework.

I probably made a rod for my own back as I just did everything when we were a couple in a one bed flat as it was all so easy. DH does do chores and we were 50/50 on childcare stuff always when DDs were small, but he is not one for noticing what needs doing and is more untidy/procrastinating than me. However if I tell him to do stuff, or give him a regular job (he does all the grocery shopping now, hurrah) he does it. He wasn't brought up that way either - his DM did everything in spite of working (cheers, MIL) whereas my DF was quite unusual in his generation as he'd had to help look after his siblings after his mum died, and was great with housework and basic cooking, so my DM worked also and they split everything between them.

However, I'd rather live with someone who is slightly less tidy than me and who needs a push every now and then to do chores, as I would hate to live with someone really neat, it would do my head in. DH has his foibles but is far from the wastes of space you read about on here and there is more to life than housework anyway, and more to someone than how good they are at tidying up!

Because many women are. Some women stay at home to raise children for at least 18 years. If you have more than one child they overlap and you could find yourself being a SAHM for well over 20 years.

Surely you are aware that there are women who leave careers in order to raise children?

My mother didn't work at all for at least 18 years. She didn't get a job until my younger sibling was at university.

they’d be doing their poor wives a favour if they left, if she didn’t dump the knuckle-dragging lump of meat first! Like others have said, no one with healthy self-esteem would tolerate that.

Yeah, so don't do that. It's complete madness. You might as well chop off a leg.

I took 8 years out to raise kids then went back to work in a role that meant I could self-support if necessary. Kids start school. You don't need to keep running around wiping their arses for 20 years.

And I didn't think it was much of a life to sit at home waiting for them to come home from school. I had an actual life to live.