To be sick of seeing "cool girl" or "cool wife" used as an insult

[11GrumpsaGrumping]

I have been on a few threads recently where some posters have been really quite cruel to other posters, including me, for having different boundaries and preferences than they do.

The terms "cool girl" or "cool wife" are slung at them, with the implication made (sometimes directly) that said "cool" person doesn't really do/feel/enjoy the way the say they do, and are just trying to be cool.

Everyone has different boundaries, experiences, cultural influences, relationships, ages, backgrounds, etc- why is it not okay for one person to find for example strippers okay within their marriage and others not to, without the former being accused of being part of the "cool wives brigade".

Is it really that hard for people to understand and accept that we all have different boundaries and lines in the sand?

It really makes me angry and I find it just another way in which woman choose to tear other women down, when what we need to do is support one another.

@Fluffymule
Not sure if you've done it intentionally but you've seriously misrepresented that anal sex thread

People only started saying they enjoy it when the first few posters came on stating it's a fact no woman actually likes it, and any who do, are just handmaidens.

And some posters did judge, saying women who enjoyed anal were disgusting, the terms they used to describe them too 'fighting for the right to shove shit up your dirty arse'

And openly admitted they were judging because apparently it's a good 'tool'

Interesting that this thread is started by one of these posters and added to by others. Almost like they have an agenda...

I can't see why any woman would be so invested in lowering women and girl's boundaries. Mumsnet when I first joined was all about raising the bar, and yet there are recently all these posters that seem to want to shame us for resisting coercion and poor male behaviour.

This.

Often it's employed when another poster is seen to be dismissive or even contemptuous of the op's stated boundaries.

It's not supportive of women to pick at their sexual or moral boundaries, and it needs to be called out.

Being the "cool girl" often comes with internalised misogyny to do with "not being like" other women & girls, (which is stereotyping from the start). They're "one of the lads" laughing along with sexism or participating in exploitative practices. I would not blindly support someone who does that just because they're also a woman.

I think there's some truth in this, I see it being used as an insult towards women who's actions and opinions don't follow the majority/the norm.

Even when those women are acting against the patriarchy, not with it. Like on the the current thread about the 'patriarchy tax where the OP is claiming that it's more expensive to be a woman because you need make up, new clothes for every occasion, more workwear, expensive haircuts etc etc. Those of us who say we are perfectly happy andsucssful without those things and see it as a choice not a necessity have had cool girl brigade thrown at us.

It's like people who use the term are jealous of those who have the confidence to know their own minds and not follow the herd, but instead of taking inspiration from them, they insult them instead.

This 100%

If you make this a TAAT it will get deleted. People can read the other thread and draw their own conclusions

I get regularly insulted on here for being anti porn. Very regularly. It's tedious. Yet that seems to be fine, however if I said "you are such a cool girl" to a poster busily telling me porn is fine, all men do it, all negative effects on relationships qnd sex are myths and she watches ethical with her partner and loves it, then I'd be told I was insulting.

Massive double standards going on and this thread is disingenuous in the extreme

I don’t agree with the poster who labelled you a ‘cool girl’ in that context.

But I also don’t think that everyone who uses the term has a miserable life.

I don’t think I’ve used the phrase myself on MN, but I have sometimes thought it. Just as I have sometimes thought ‘pearl clutcher’ or ‘handmaiden’ or whatever. I try not to post those types of things in a thread because they (obviously) get people’s backs up and tend to derail discussion.

So much of it is tit for tat. Someone gets told to ‘relax’ so then they get called a ‘cool girl’, so the ‘cool girl’ calls the other poster uptight or miserable or whatever and on it goes. None of these phrases tends to help discussions move along.

@AdamRyan

Again not reading properly. See you do seem to do this multiple times, not just on the anal thread.

I was responding to a poster who brought that thread up.

So much of it is tit for tat. Someone gets told to ‘relax’ so then they get called a ‘cool girl’, so the ‘cool girl’ calls the other poster uptight or miserable or whatever and on it goes. None of these phrases tends to help discussions move along.

They never help the discussion.

Name calling instead of sensible debate helps no one, whether it is Cool Wife, Karen, or any of the other shorthand terms for people we disagree with.

And if its about supporting women what about the strippers, sex workers etc. Who are often forced either literally, socially or through trauma into doing jobs that the 'cool wives' most certainly wouldnt aspire to for themselves or their daughters.

It’s usually reserved for the women who are super casual about their DHs getting a stripper or going out every night to the pub while she puts the kids to bed, or who are happy for them to spend 12 hours each Saturday and Sunday playing golf. And it’s usually those women who are putting down the women who object to these things.

And here we go

What did I post that makes you think I "haven't read properly"? That's rude and unwarranted

You have posted a very biased response to another posters view of the thread. I'm pointing that out, you insult me.

But that's not as bad as calling someone a cool girl (which I didn't but someone else did) for describing their anal sex in detail when it wasn't relevant to the topic of the thread

Thanks for that

It's telling that the only insults you'll get banned for using on MN are aligned with a certain type of user

I've often asked for it to be broadened to include the frankly misogynistic terms such as handmaiden but they refuse to....

Oh yes, that's another one . Karen

But more mainstream and tends to get picked up and told off on MN.

I was hoping for some tips about keeping cool...being peri and overweight...
Sometimes this world speaks a language I don't understand.

I really appreciated the cool girl/cool wife insult. Once I properly looked into what it meant I realised it’s what I did. Just totally pretended all these things were “cool and ok” because I believed that I was supposed to find them “cool and ok” and the fact that I didn’t was some kind of character flaw in me? I was too insecure, too jealous, not open minded enough and blah blah

but reading the cool wife definition was just so enlightening to me and I loved that actually, I wasn’t “uncool” for not wanting any guy drooling over half naked pics online, or embarrassing me

and also, I need to show my son that women are worthy of being treated with dignity. How am I showing that if I put up with any old male-identified shit? Nah.

I love the phrase! And the more of us who are triggered by it… the more of us need it.

@AdamRyan

You mentioned not making this a TAAT

When I was merely replying to someone who had already done that

Hence not reading properly

Something you tried arguing before you didn't do

Laughable

YANBU at all. There are definitely people on Mumsnet who seem to think it's a betrayal of the sisterhood if you don't have the same views as them on certain issues, particularly when it comes to the behaviour of partners. There are some women on Mumsnet who seem to think that you are some sort of 'Cool Wife' who desperately wants men to like her if:

• You don't hate porn
• You don't mind your partner having female friends
• You don't think it's a big deal if your partner goes to a strip club
• You share your partner's keen interest in football
• You don't expect your partner to keep in constant contact with you on a stag weekend

etc etc. It really annoys me. For example, I actually would definitely be annoyed if my DP went to strip clubs. That's one of my boundaries. But I don't make weird judgements about women who would be totally OK with this! We all have different lines that we draw in the sand, and that's fine.

I do think there are definitely women who are desperate for men's approval and also have a lot of internalised misogyny going on, so want to prove that they are 'not like other girls' to make men like them. Those women do exist. But yeah, on Mumsnet when people start throwing around the 'cool wife' or 'pick me girl' stuff around, it's invariably just because they think everyone should have exactly the same boundaries or interests that they do.

@sunglassesonthetable and @queenMab99, yes, agree.

I think it’s what sometimes happens when posters respond quickly and reactively. A poster feels insulted or angry and immediately posts a reply. I have often got over invested in MN threads (and Twitter spats) and I try really hard these days to take some deep breaths, close the browser and go and do something else for a while so that I can collect my thoughts and try to come back later with a measured response. (Not saying I always succeed, mind you!)

I think @ScarlettOHaraHamiltonKennedyButler has it bang on. It's not because of the differing boundaries, it's because many of those with differing boundaries seem to feel that those of us who have different boundaries should act/think like them and make their view known and the rest of us are just fussing about nothing and are seriously 'uncool' -

Actually no. There was a thread a while back because her husband was out, which he didn’t often do, and she was annoyed that he didn’t check in with her throughout the night. I was called a cool wife for saying she’s verging on controlling behaviour and he’s not done anything wrong.

It’s used by many MNers against women who have different views when it comes to something a man does.

Rough sex is a difficult one because I do accept that there are some women who will genuinely enjoy it, and I don’t want to kink shame. But to women overall it’s undoubtedly a harmful development that more and more men are demanding and expecting it as the norm in heterosexual relationships and I really don’t think that’s anything to be celebrated.

I kind of think the onus is on those who do, for example, enjoy rough sex, lap dancing clubs, pornography etc to understand that they might well be the outliers and it’s not necessarily a common desire. It’s not “prudish” or “pearl clutching” to not like those things, it’s those women who do who are the ones at the extreme.

And that’s assuming that the posters being accused of being cool girls actually do like these things in the first place. Women are very capable of convincing themselves they are ok with something when they might actually not be. I went to a lap dancing club myself in my 20s, because I was trying to impress my boyfriend. I pretended to enjoy certain sex acts, pretended to want to watch porn while having sex, etc. I didn’t enjoy any of it, really. I’m sure I’d have objected to being a cool girl back then but that is absolutely what I was doing. A decade on with a better relationship, a bit more wisdom and stronger boundaries I can see that clearly but I couldn’t at the time. I’m furious at 20-something me for being part of normalising stuff that is damaging to women as a whole. This isn’t to deny women agency over their own likes and dislikes and boundaries which may be different to mine, it’s recognising that we all make our choices within a context and subject to particular influences.

On balance of harms I’d rather a few women get pissed off by being called a cool girl than a generation of girls get the impression there’s something wrong with them if they don’t enjoy rough sex and lap dancing clubs.

That’s a bit rambling, I’m not sure I’m explaining myself well.

Replying to someone and telling them what they have posted about a different thread is making this a TAAT

Obviously there were different perspectives on that thread. People can read it and see what side they are on. However you've chosen to insult me for pointing thar out. On a thread where OP is....complaining about being insulted for having a different opinion

I'm not responding to your personal attacks any more

Exactly this. Any woman who is ok with such things is often called a cool wife. It’s insulting and unnecessary.